Dealing with an aggressive dog attack, best way?

[Jenerationx]

I think there are 3 issues right now that I think are contributing to all these uncontrollable dogs.

1. The whole “it’s not the breed” issue. I don’t think a specific breed should be “demonized” as all bad, or put on a pedestal of all good either. However, there are breed characteristics, otherwise why would there even be breeds in the first place? Know the typical behavior of your breed and have a plan for fulfilling that before bringing it into your home. A lot of terriers are drivey and need a JOB (or sport, or some kind of intense exercise) to keep them from finding their own things to do.

2. Rescues have a HIGH volume of dogs that aren’t suitable for most homes, but place these dogs anyway. They need to get REAL with the history of each dog. Most are not surrendered because they’re well adjusted perfect little angels. They need to objectively evaluate the dog and determine what real world situation this dog needs (if it can even be accommodated) and be willing to euthanize those that are not suitable to be in most homes.

3. The positive only movement in training is creating more dogs that are completely out of control. The idea that bad behavior is just ignored and we only reward good behavior is perfectly fine for the dog that’s super motivated by praise and food and has no drive to chase or chew or run. It doesn’t work so well when the dog is in drive mode and wants to go chase the horse more than it wants whatever treat you have (yes, even pizza.) The “don’t correct, just wait for the good behavior” means that if the dog blows off the recall and the treats, they’re just doing whatever they want in the meantime. It’s ridiculous to think you can stop bad behavior in any kind of timely manner by ignoring that it’s happening.

A family member has 2 elderly pits now. He adopted each of them from rescues so exact age unknown but one is at least 13 and the other 15. Aside from the backyard looking like they’re on an archaeological dig, they’re pretty well behaved. They are DRIVEY though. Squeak toys promptly get desqueaked… with that typical terrier flare of grab and shake til it’s “dead.” So when a friend asked if they could possibly bring their cat over to be watched while they went on vacation, that was a heck no. Dog parks? Nope… a small dog running away would probably trigger that drive. You have to know what you have and manage accordingly. Too many people don’t, won’t, or can’t.

[equinelibrium]

@RedHorses

I ride right at questionable dogs now

This may be a super ignorant question, but would yelling and waving your arms at an aggressive dog deter them in any way? I know when you run across bears that’s what you’re supposed to do, but obviously a bear minding its own business is a totally different thing than a dog coming at you for the kill. (Can you tell I don’t have much experience with dogs? I grew up with two but they both had absolutely no prey drive, so I have no experience with any sort of dog aggression)

[SuzieQNutter]

@endlessclimb

When a dog is behaved around horses, it’s fun to have a tiny buddy join for a hack, and good exercise for the dog.

When a dog is well behaved around horses do not take them as a tiny buddy for a hack. The dogs race the horse when it is in canter or gallop and they swerve in front of the horse who then somersaults.

A trained well behaved dog who is taught to heel and stay behind the horse, is a fun buddy to take on a hack and is good exercise for the dog… until they get older, then they find a spot to lie down and wait for you to return!

[endlessclimb]

@SuzieQNutter

When a dog is well behaved around horses do not take them as a tiny buddy for a hack

… a dog who races the horse is not well behaved.

I would think that would go without saying, but hey, look at all the stupid dog owners described in this thread…

[endlessclimb]

Additionally, you might just have a coronary at a foxhunt or field trial if you expect a dog to heel or stay behind.

[Pico_Banana]

I want to share a perspective that hasn’t been presented much in this thread.

I have a dog who is what I would consider not safe around most other dogs, at least initially. She was in a dog fight a number of years ago - unclear who the aggressor was then - but now EVERY TIME she sees another dog she goes on high alert. Her heart starts racing and I swear she is thinking “I had better get them before they get me.”

So we manage her. She is leashed when we are outside of our fenced yard. She wears both a harness and a collar so we have two ways to restrain her if necessary. We still go on dog walks, but my husband and I are on the lookout for other dogs. When we see them, we pull to the side and wait for the other dog to pass. We inform the other dog owner that she needs her space. If the other dog is unleashed (not allowed where we go but it still happens), we ask them to leash their dog. If she’s really upset (she turns into a statue), I pick her up and hold her (all 65 lbs of her!) until the other dog is a good distance away.

We have tried all sorts of training, exposure, etc. Nothing has worked. Put her in a group dog training class, for example, and she just shuts down completely. It’s really sad.

What’s odd is that she actually gets along with every dog she’s met once she’s had a chance to get to know them. We have been successful in having friend’s dogs come over, we put them all in muzzles in our fenced yard, and let them loose. She usually growls at them and makes sure everyone knows that she’s in charge, and then everyone is fine. We can take muzzles off and they all run around and have a blast.

And with this one exception, she is a GREAT dog. She loves every person she’s ever met. Little kids get in her space all of the time (despite my efforts - they can be fast!) while we are walking and she’s 100% okay with it. She’s super smart. She’s a lot of fun.

But I guess my point is that these dogs are manageable a lot of the time - note I did not say ALL of the time. But it takes work and discipline.

I have to say, I really don’t ever want to have another dog I have to manage like this again. I love her dearly, but it takes away from some of the joy of dog ownership.

And to be clear, I am NOT excusing the owner of the dog in the video (which I did not watch because I could not bear it, I’m sure).

[Djones]

@SuzieQNutter

@endlessclimb

exercise for the dog.

When a dog is well behaved around horses do not take them as a tiny buddy for a hack. The dogs race the horse when it is in canter or gallop and they swerve in front of the horse who then somersaults.

A trained well behaved dog who is taught to heel and stay behind the horse, is a fun buddy to take on a hack and is good exercise for the dog… until they get older, then they find a spot to lie down and wait for you to return!

How curious to disagree about riding with dogs then agree that it’s fun to ride with dogs.

We ride with our two quite a bit. They are trained to stay out of the way…you know, just like you described and what @endlessclimb meant

[Djones]

@equinelibrium

This may be a super ignorant question, but would yelling and waving your arms at an aggressive dog deter them in any way?

It depends on the dog. I was very afraid that my friend’s dog would more than meet me halfway had I challenged him. Most charging dogs aren’t actually intent on anything more than bluffing and being noisy.

[4horses]

My friend worked at a no kill rescue. She said they had Pitt bulls that were terribly aggressive and unadoptable. She said all they do is keep the dogs locked up and transfer it to another rescue which does the same, until the dogs ends up somewhere that allows euthanasia. But these dogs are unsafe to adopt out.

[RedHorses]

@equinelibrium

What Djones said. And having the horse moving directly towards the dog reduces the appearance of being prey. Trying to go past, especially any faster than a walk, can appear to be running away - which triggers the dog’s chase reflex.

I have also encountered a young Great Dane out on a hack. That dog was very curious about the horse in a “must sniff!” kind of attitude. Once he had sniffed, he decided he wanted to play and started barking and bouncing. I had my superhorse TG and we stood still until the dog’s owners had him leashed and settled.

The play invitation could have become an attack in a split second if my horse had moved away and triggered the dog’s prey drive.

I don’t think there’s anything we can do, without some kind of weapon, as riders if the dog is locked in to attack our horse. But the uncertain dog may be detered by human voice commands and a direct approach.

[endlessclimb]

What a crappy life for the dog, until finally someone is able to give him dignity. I knew this happened, shuffling the un-fixable dogs around, but it makes me so sad.

[SuzieQNutter]

I was just trying to say that if you meet a dog on the trail that does not attack but wants to go with you and seems well behaved does not mean it is trained, as that is what happened to me. Yes raced my horse and told off adamantly by my Mum as how dangerous it was.

My own dog was taught to heel and stay behind the horse I was riding. I presume hounds on hunt fields are after the scent they are following and not bothered with the horses and that the horses and dogs, handlers and riders are trained.

[Djones]

@SuzieQNutter

I was just trying to say that if you meet a dog on the trail that does not attack but wants to go with you and seems well behaved does not mean it is trained, as that is what happened to me. Yes raced my horse and told off adamantly by my Mum as how dangerous it was.

Say what? @endlessclimb meant if YOU OWN a well behaved dog it’s fun to ride with them. How did you read it as if you happen to run across some random well behaved dog go galloping with it? Of course that’s a bad idea.

[sophie]

Over the years I’ve encountered quite a few off-leash dogs when out and about with my horse(s).
The one that I remember the best was when we were riding at the beach one winter. Dogs are allowed off leash there, but they usually are well behaved and not a problem.
Until we met one that ran straight at our horses, hackles raised, barking. And yes…a pitbull type. We stopped the horses and kept facing the dog so he couldn’t get kicked or grab our horses’s legs. My young Ottb mare was beside herself, though, and it was all I could to stay on and control her.
The dog’s person was an older man who was running around calling him, to no effect. At one point, I was more worried about the man having a heart attack than anything else! Fortunately, a friend of mine who was on foot managed to grab the (people friendly) dog.
Turns out the old man was the dog’s owner’s dad. Didn’t know the dog that well. Lesson learned, for him! My friend stayed with him to make sure he was ok, too.

This same mare was used to going on trail rides with my own dog (a truly harmless, very well behaved Std poodle). The dog actually had a calming effect on her.

[enjoytheride]

I would run if I had no other option. I certainly wouldn’t sit on my horse like a moron and let a dog try to kill it. I have had two mares that do not like dogs and they are swift and accurate. I had one pick a dog up and throw it down an aisle and kick a dog in the head. Both were warning shots and more “you ignored my mare ears now I escalate” Another time she simply just cantered over the top of the dog (no, your dog did not move and no my horse did not yield). All dogs survived.

I have another that chased down a fully grown German Shepherd that thought chasing my horses would be fun and I have no doubt that she did not intend on giving a warning.

I have had to do more work with those mares teaching them that we do not murder dogs while under saddle than people do training their dogs.

[endlessclimb]

The one time my late mare grabbed the (very sweet, minding his own business, large pyrenees cross) barn dog off the ground while I was leading her, fully intending to kill him… woo boy. I’m not sure I have ever been angrier at a horse, and I made it ABUNDANTLY clear to her that she was NEVER to do that again. And she didn’t.

What she did when she was loose, I never reprimanded (intervened to avoid disaster, yes, but not disciplined). But when you’re on a line with me, you keep your murderous tendencies to yourself, mare.

[StormyDay]

So, I’ve been attacked by dogs 3 times. One attacked me, one attacked me and my dog, and one tried to get my horse with me on it.

As others have said above, I can say from experience, If the dog has bit down the best thing you can do is choke it. You can get the dog to release the fastest this way, as you actually block blood flow to the brain. The thing is though, don’t stop choking it once you’ve got it to let go; you need to get it secured before letting go. Because that dog will wake up angry and bite again. And this time it might be your face.

[Bogie]

@SuzieQNutter

A trained well behaved dog who is taught to heel and stay behind the horse, is a fun buddy to take on a hack and is good exercise for the dog… until they get older, then they find a spot to lie down and wait for you to return!

Yes, my Westie would do that in his later years. He’d follow us until he got tired and then would lie at the intersection of two trails waiting for me to come back! I had horse-trained dogs for many years who would ride with me. The best was my Standard Poodle, who liked cross country jumping even more than my horse. Given how many poorly trained off leash dogs I see now, I’m not sure I’d take dogs out with me on the trails any longer.

[Mondo]

I saw that video on FB a week ago or so. I’m not easily bothered, but that really shook me. It was beyond horrible to watch. One point that no one here has made yet, is that had this happened in the U.S., I have no doubt that the rider of the victim horse would have pulled his gun out and shot the attacking dog, or at a minimum, tasered it. An English cop doesn’t have a gun (I believe. Correct me if I’m wrong). And if not the rider, then his partner. Or a bystander since the cops might think it unsafe with all the civilians around.

I’ve quit taking my (small) dogs to the local dog park because there are too many pandemic adoptees that are running around with no training, clueless owners, and agressive tendencies. I’ve broken up more than one dog fight there and I just got sick of it. One 80 lb. pitbull was obsessed with my chihuahua. I finally handed someone my little doggie and backed that pit off physically. Thereafter, he was afraid of my chi.

But I always have a whip on the rare occasion I trail ride. I would have dismounted (sounds like that may not have been an option for the cop in the video) and beat the living hell out of that dog. I’ve tried the wheelbarrow approach. Problem with that is, with a heavy dog (70 lbs or more) that’s a big ask from a little old lady (me). Also, I have been bitten when the dog in question redirected its agression on me. It does’t always work.

[Jenerationx]

I carry a stun gun.