Dealing with Thrush...

[Woodstocklover8]

So I own a barn with a few boarders. Last year in the late fall all my horses got a case of thrush at the same time which was very odd since it was very dry last fall. In order to combat the problem I changed bedding (from shavings to pellets) and treated those who have had it and just about all of them went back to normal afterwards. There was a small learning curve with this new bedding as to how much I needed, when to add more, mixed it with/without added shavings, etc. but I’ve got a good handle on it and it’s been fine now for a few months. The stalls stay relatively dry and clean with little effort unless they’re in for days at a time or it rains heavily. Some horses are obviously dirtier than others but I’ve not had the same issues like I did previously. However, one of the horses is still having issues. This horse abscessed around the same time that everyone had problems in the fall and the horse’s feet were retaining a ridiculous amount of moisture until I switched bedding. At the time, we doubled the horse’s bedding, dried its feet out, treated the abscess and things were looking up. The horse got shoes put on and had been doing well. Since then, we’ve reduced the bedding down a bit since it was excessive and the moisture issues we saw did not return.

As a barn owner, if the horses are in for a day because of rain or for some reason I don’t get to cleaning stalls that day (doesn’t happen often), I always pick out the horse’s hooves before putting them back on dry bedding. I noticed this particular horse had some residual thrush after the abscess incident, mentioned it to the owner, I treated it at that time, and the owner treated it a few times after that. It was never very consistent treatment nor was it a vigorous treatment. I noticed it on several occasions and told the owner. Now it’s turned into a pretty bad case and the owner is frantic about it. They are convinced that it’s the stall conditions that are causing the problem and that the stall is too wet.

This horse gets a decent amount of bedding still and it’s stall is often dusty except for where the horse pees along the back wall/corner. Mind you, the front feet are the ones badly effected by the thrush and the horse is normally situated with it’s back feet in the soiled bedding, not with the front feet. I clean the stall out once a day. There’s no pooling or puddling of urine. The horses are usually outside for 6 hours a day on dry lots with clay based soil (which when wet, packs in their hooves and usually draws out infections like a poultice). My ring is limestone and dries feet out within minutes.

The thrush is deep in the split crevices of the frog between the heal bulbs and the horse is sensitive when picking/cleaning its feet but is sound to ride. The farrier was just out and stated that the horse’s feet were dry enough that it made it difficult to trim even after being in the stall for 24 hours prior to the trim with no stall cleaning in between. So at this rate, I’m convinced that the stall conditions are not the issue here as the foot is obviously dry…

I’ve known the owner for several years and boarded at other barns with this owner and horse. I’ve seen the horse in worse stall conditions than now and the owner has never had this issue before.

So my questions are…

1. Is it possible this is just a waterfall effect? That the previous abscess and foot issues are what caused this lingering thrush and is it possible to have a hoof that’s nice and dry with thrush persisting this bad?

2. How do I deal with situation tactfully? The owner and I are friends but I’m feeling mildly attacked on this issue since I’m the sole care-provider for their horse.

[Scribbler]

First, does the farrier think the horse has thrush?

There is real indisputable thrush (it stinks) and then there is borderline or even imaginary thrush. What symptoms are you seeing?

Second, IME when horses have persistent cases of real thrush, the problem is very often in the trim and balance of the feet. If they have contracted heels, the frog narrows and the foot is more prone to thrush.

It would be very interesting to see photos of the affected feet.

How have you been treating the thrush? If so what with? You said the treatment wasn’t very consistent or aggressive. Well, now is the time to be more consistent and aggressive, and see what happens.

There seems to be another question here too, which is how you deal with a boarder who is blaming stall conditions for the thrush, when you feel that stall conditions are not to blame. There’s no way we can tell you definitively who is right and who is wrong here, unless we were onsite to actually see that stall every day.

I would suggest you point out to the boarder that the other horses in the same barn don’t have thrush anymore, and then work hard at treating the thrush with your aggressive treatment of choice (copper sulfate products, chlorine products such as Whiteline, or even Gentian Violet like Blukote) not the mild treatments people use on imaginary thrush (like cider vinegar). Cure the thrush and you have proven her wrong.

[PrincessPonies]

I had a similar issue years ago when the thrush seemed to get up into the frog. The vet was out for other reasons and did confirm it was thrush. We had an amazing farrier at the time who had seen it before. He recommended we use silver sulfadiazine cream, we got some from the vet. Then we used thin a ended syringe to put the cream in the crack. We did this every day for a week and then every other until it had cleared up. My farrier said the reason other thrush treatments weren’t working was because they weren’t getting into the crack.
The one thing was that it was always me doing it. I’m not sure what you offer in your board but if I needed something done everyday like this is was my responsibility. If the owner really thinks it’s the stall or something else wrong suggest calling at vet or the farrier if they are well versed in thrush.

[walktrot]

I’ve used Thrush Buster for years. I use it whenever I get a whiff of anything when I clean hooves regardless. My gelding is shod in front with 2 degree pads. The farrier uses medicated packing and adds powdered copper sulfate. Occasionally he gets a bit of thrush, but we apply a little TB and then nail the shoe and pad on. He is pasture boarded so he is out in wet conditions, but has never had a bad case. Since it’s an infection, it could establish itself as a chronic condition and it wouldn’t make much difference if conditions are wet or dry. Throw in things like hoof imbalance and irregular farrier visits and it can make it harder to treat and prevent.

[findeight]

Is the owner participating in every day cleaning of the hoof and applying the preferred treatment if indicated and as recommended? Or do they come out a few days a week and expect you to take care of it and provide any treatment in their absence?

Unless I was in a full service barn with daily grooming provided, none of my barns did this or provided the treatment. The barns told me or I discovered it, I bought the stuff and got my rear out to the barn more often to completely clean and dry the hoof plus apply the treatment. If I couldn’t get there at least every other day, I paid extra for thrush treatment. It’s not a part of the average basic boarding services.

Would say this owner needs to talk with their farrier and look at possible systemic conditions that might be perpetuating the poor hoof health.

This is the owners deal if it’s the only one on the place with bad hoof health. OP is a caring BO who has done her part in trying to solve this. No way is she responsible for continuing treatments and special care. It’s hard doing business with friends when you are the business owner and the friend thinks they should get special treatment. If you give it to them, the other boarders will jump on it and you’ll get barn drama.

Nope, this is the owners responsibility.

[Kottbulle]

I think some horses are more prone to thrush and other infections… once was at a barn and everyone kept getting scratches but a few didn’t and everyone was turned out in the same muddy paddock and all were hosed off when brought in.
I would aggressively treat it and hope that solves things. Lots of good suggestions for products but I would try a tube or two of Tomorrow. It’s in the Cow/Livestock section at most feed store. It is for treating mastitis in cow udders but my farrier suggested it years ago for treating Thrush, and now I for treatment I won’t use anything else. It’s very runny, so even though its in a plunger type syringe don’t squeeze to quickly until you are aimed at where you want it to go. It comes with a thin flexible tip, so its perfect for getting in around the frog and heels. Added bonus it doesn’t stain your clothes! Don’t know why it works so well, but it does… assuming its the antibiotics attacking the bacterial component of the Thrush. But it works.And is pretty darn affordable to.

Good Luck

[findeight]

Bill the owner for anything you buy specifically to treat that one horse.

[gypsymare]

I’d love to see a photo of the feet. Contracted heels often lead to thrush. White lightning soaks are the best thing I’ve found, and if you have to do them frequently it’s easier to buy it in a gallon jug called “Oxine AH”. Mix half and half with vinegar and soak the hoof in a medicine boot or bag to a depth of an inch with the bag sealed at the top. One soaking will wipe out existing thrush.

[drafting_dots]

@Köttbulle

I would aggressively treat it and hope that solves things. Lots of good suggestions for products but I would try a tube or two of Tomorrow. It’s in the Cow/Livestock section at most feed store. It is for treating mastitis in cow udders but my farrier suggested it years ago for treating Thrush, and now I for treatment I won’t use anything else. It’s very runny, so even though its in a plunger type syringe don’t squeeze to quickly until you are aimed at where you want it to go. It comes with a thin flexible tip, so its perfect for getting in around the frog and heels. Added bonus it doesn’t stain your clothes! Don’t know why it works so well, but it does… assuming its the antibiotics attacking the bacterial component of the Thrush. But it works.And is pretty darn affordable to.

This! You don’t say what you treated with but Tomorrow paste is really amazing and the tiny tipped syringe is perfect for getting super deep in any cracks. It is antibacterial but can be used consistently without any immunity developing.

No comment on all the other issues :lol:

[Woodstocklover8]

Thanks for all the ideas. To answer some of the questions raised…

1. It is indeed thrush. Farrier, vet, and personal experience all confirm.

2. The horse’s foot is well balanced, is shaped properly with no problems in terms of crushed, under run or contracted heals. The foot was previously healthy in worse conditions than this but many years ago struggled with white line when conditions were at it’s poorest (neglectful even) before I knew them. The farrier we use is one of the best in the area and I trust his opinions and his work is lovely. I’ve been using him for years now.

3. I use pellet bedding… I don’t initially put a lot in but it breaks down quickly with the horses moving around a bit and puffs up to about 2-3 inches of sawdust and when I clean stalls, I just ad more pellets after I’ve cleaned them to what ever is left over. Every once and a while, I’ll strip the stall if the color starts to get dark. I do sweep back from the door and under the water buckets but not very far. The farrier’s suggestion was to just add more bedding and see if it changes anything. But he also says that his stalls are bedded pretty deep at home and he’s had less issues than most… So I think I can go that route and just see what happens. It’s expensive initially when I bed them up but the pellets are so absorbent that I typically don’t need to ad more than I already do once it’s “deep”.

4. When it was treated previously, Thrush Buster was used. I personally treat my horses with a Peroxide-Provadine mixture in a spray bottle and lightly spray my horse’s frogs once a week. Has been a god send - quick, easy, and works incredibly well. I do believe we used this mixture once or twice on this horse before, but again, it wasn’t consistent and the problem was never truly resolved. We’ve been using Tomorrow the past 3 days and it’s already improving. I’ve used this before and it does well for deep seeded thrush problems with deep fissures. I’m just hoping that the treatment is continued for as long as it’s needed.

5. I’m not responsible for treating this horse. I’ve offered to assist when they haven’t been able to get out to the barn which I do because they’re my friend. But it’s not in any sort of agreement/contract that I must. I would do it if asked but I think it’s more of a “We did something about it for a few days, it should be better now” sort of scenario… I just don’t think it’s cleared up because it wasn’t treated long enough or aggressive enough…but that’s not necessarily my place to say.

It seems to me that a lot of people just immediately point their fingers to a horse’s stall when thrush is concerned… But there are so many more factors in this situation… and if that were the case, all my horses would still be dealing with as badly as this. There are a few horses in the barn that are down right pigs and the thrush they had is completely eradicated despite being in wetter conditions than this particular horse.

[Buckshot1]

Can you get the farrier to talk to the owner about it as an objective 3rd party?
It sounds like inconsistent treatment has bred some resistant bugs deep in the heel crack. Maybe the farrier can put some pressure on them to treat it properly this time.

[freshman]

Any chance this horse is Cushingoid? Thrush development even in dry, sanitary conditions that is often treatment resistant is a fairy common phenomenon in these horses.

[Texarkana]

Loosely quoting a phrase that comes up in hoof circles: “healthy hooves don’t have butt cracks.”

Deep sulcus thrush is a sign that the hoof trim/balance is sub-optimal for the horse, because there shouldn’t be a deep sulcus to become infected in the first place. That doesn’t mean the farrier is “bad,” it just means something isn’t working for this particular horse.

The best piece of horse advice I ever received was from a university farrier who told me to treat serious thrush like a skin wound. A lot of the thrush treatments on the market work because they “dry up” the tissue before infection can be established. But once an infection takes hold, these types of treatments do more harm than good because they kill new, healing tissue which keeps the area prone to infection. Instead, clean the area once or twice daily with a mild antiseptic, apply an antimicrobial topical, and keep it as clean and dry as possible. If the horse has shoes, pulling them to treat deep sulcus thrush is helpful, as it allows the heels to naturally spread and open the area to more oxygen. Antimicrobial soaks can also be beneficial, but the same rule applies about using chemicals appropriate for skin wounds.

Horses with optimal hoof health can tolerate all sorts of environmental conditions without developing thrush. It’s the horses with compromised feet/compromised health that develop it at the drop of the hat.

[warriorhorse]

@Woodstocklover8

Thanks for all the ideas. To answer some of the questions raised…

1. It is indeed thrush. Farrier, vet, and personal experience all confirm.

2. The horse’s foot is well balanced, is shaped properly with no problems in terms of crushed, under run or contracted heals. The foot was previously healthy in worse conditions than this but many years ago struggled with white line when conditions were at it’s poorest (neglectful even) before I knew them. The farrier we use is one of the best in the area and I trust his opinions and his work is lovely. I’ve been using him for years now.
   .

Post pictures of these well balanced hooves. I can bet they aren’t well balanced ,well trimmed because that kind of foot doesn’t get thrush and doesn’t have a butt crack between heel bulbs. my 1 horse is living in muck wet conditions and feet are perfectly healthy, hasn’t been in a dry stall since october 2017. Melting snow thawing ground makes for a mess of water & mud.

[Woodstocklover8]

The crack in the frog has developed post thrush. It was not there prior. I had a similar situation with my mare years ago when the thrush got bad due to standing in a urine puddle all day with her back feet at a place we boarded at. Treated it vigorously and it filled in and healed up and has been fine ever since - no more crack. This horse has never had a crack there. Like I mentioned in the original post, this horse had some very strange foot issues in the fall with retaining a large amount of moisture, developed and abscess that had busted the heal apart. We’ve dried up the horses feet nicely since then but the thrush has taken hold and has eaten the frog tissue, creating the deep crease between the bulbs. We’ve both been using the same farrier for years and he’s done an awesome job. He’ll be the first to tell you hooves shouldn’t have a crack there. I’ve worked with a lot of good and a lot of bad farriers over the years… This horse’s feet are balanced well and trimmed/shod appropriately.

The horse is not cushionoid - just had a blood panel run and everything is within normal ranges.

We are four days into treatment with Tomorrow and packing with cotton and the horse’s feet already look much better. The farrier was able to re-sect a great deal of damaged tissue so we have a nice clear area to treat. Obviously a long way to go but I’ve insisted that we attack it pretty aggressively until the frog has recovered. I’ve agreed to put more bedding in as that is what the farrier suggested we try. So I guess we will see what happens…

[longlanefarm]

Agree with using Tomorrow. Wonderful product and then maintain weekly with Thrush Buster.

I agree, in my experience, the pelleted bedding is much drier than shavings/straw and also easier to clean making the stall generally cleaner. Without being at your facility and seeing for ourselves it’s hard to say, but it doesn’t sound like environmental. Though I will say, if a horse is stalled all day, missing ONE day of stall cleaning is a big deal in my book. The horse would probably benefit from not being in a stall to get the blood pumping effect of moving around more often.