Debbie McDonald "losing our way in this sport"

[LarkspurCO]

Of course they are going to post the worst looking photos they can find to make it look like the horse had his chin on his chest for an hour “to deprive him of oxygen” (see some of the comments).

Here’s short segment of the previous day’s warm-up.

https://www.facebook.com/DianeBliessen/videos/o.461648053846246/959979567398339/?type=2&theater

I have to ask, why is this video only three minutes long? Could it be that the rest of the warm-up did not offend them?

(By the way, I don’t know Diane Bliessen but I really like her art work.)

[Equibrit]

[QUOTE=JLR1;8273653]
Debbie McDonald’s recent Facebook post…

“So sad we are loosing our way in this sport. Time to rethink the future for me. As a coach and a trainer it’s hard to know what one wants from these amazing animals anymore. They give us so much and it seems harmony, good gaits, and classical training are not what they seem to reward anymore ???”

https://www.facebook.com/debbie.mcdonald.94617?fref=ts&ref=br_tf[/QUOTE]

Who is “they” ?

[skydy]

If we knew who “they” were then we might better understand what exactly is the matter…
As it is all I can take from the statement is that she is discouraged and unhappy with someone or some entity.

[Libby2563]

[QUOTE=skydy;8274910]
If we knew who “they” were then we might better understand what exactly is the matter…
As it is all I can take from the statement is that she is discouraged and unhappy with someone or some entity.[/QUOTE]

The way I read it, the first “they” is horses (“they give us so much”) and the second “they” is judges (“not what they seem to reward”). I’m not on Facebook so I can’t see the context, if there is any, but that’s how I read the post as copied here.

[skydy]

[QUOTE=Libby2563;8274924]
The way I read it, the first “they” is horses (“they give us so much”) and the second “they” is judges (“not what they seem to reward”). I’m not on Facebook so I can’t see the context, if there is any, but that’s how I read the post as copied here.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is obvious that the first “they” was a reference to horses…

The second “they” is the one that has to be interpreted. It does not automatically follow that she is speaking of judges. She could be speaking of selectors or Chefs d’equipe or any number of persons or entities, we don’t know and she is not telling us at this point in time.

[LarkspurCO]

[QUOTE=Libby2563;8274924]
The way I read it, the first “they” is horses (“they give us so much”) and the second “they” is judges (“not what they seem to reward”). I’m not on Facebook so I can’t see the context, if there is any, but that’s how I read the post as copied here.[/QUOTE]

Here’s the same post with comments, including one from Robert Dover. You don’t need a Facebook account to see it.

https://www.facebook.com/debbie.mcdonald.94617/posts/10204946850497710

[Countrywood]

Maybe now that she is not competing she feels free to speak her mind more. Imo the divide in dressage is when the training becomes ugly even as it produces a beautiful result. I think what she means is horses are innately capable of only so much, and in order to get that extra “more”, the training can become stressful / borderline abusive…

Unless one is Charlotte Dujardin… then again Valegro might be a freak of nature, where “more” is easier for him then even most top elite horses. (he’s the American Pharoah of dressage, extraordinary in capability and strength)

Dressage is divided into two camps, and perhaps every equestrian sport is divided into these 2 camps…the first camp wont push the training beyond what a horse can comfortably tolerate even if it means lesser results in competition or slower progress. The second will push a horse to outer limits of physical or mental endurance in order to win or progress faster. If her complaint is with the second camp, why so late in coming and limited to facebook?

[skydy]

[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8275001]
Here’s the same post with comments, including one from Robert Dover. You don’t need a Facebook account to see it.

https://www.facebook.com/debbie.mcdonald.94617/posts/10204946850497710[/QUOTE]

Thanks Larkspur.
Hmmm… still not clear what specifically is the matter and what triggered this statement but people are sometimes more comfortable with generalizations when complaining in public.
I’m not entitled to know anything about anyone’s feelings or thought process, so I suppose it doesn’t matter if it’s clear to me or not.

[JLR1]

Some questioned her whether it was in part related to the latest video from Gerd Heuschmann regarding the “decline of modern dressage”.

http://epona.tv/dressage-astray-part-one

[candico]

I really like Debbie and loved the relationship she had with Brentina.

That said, and perhaps this was just a one off thing, I watched her teaching a rider who clearly was “losing it” with her horse in an abusive way. The horse was getting absolutely fried and had no idea what the right answer was in that particular situation and certainly had a frightened look in his eye which was so uncharacteristic for him. I could not hear every word she was saying to the rider, but this situation went on and on. As a trainer/clinician I had hoped she would have spoken up for the horse or at least tried to divert the situation into something where the horse could end on a positive note or told the rider to take a break - not ride with anger. So I don’t know… Whenever I have seen Debbie ride it is always with lots and lots of rewarding and encouragement so this was surprising to me. But I hope she doesn’t have blinders that only and all LDR riders are dressage gone wrong. Also admit, I have no idea what exactly is the situation that has her so dismayed.

[poltroon]

I watched Debbie teach one day at a show, and I didn’t expect her to be there, so I didn’t realize it was her (until after the lesson was over). I was so deeply impressed with how she worked with the rider. She has an amazing eye and that so-important ability to see and correct what is going wrong before the rider even knows there is a problem. I would ride with her any day.

I don’t know what’s upset her, but I really feel the importance of creating harmony and balance with the horse. I want to do what she teaches, as a rider. And if that’s not being called “dressage” any more, then I don’t feel the need to do dressage.

[vineyridge]

Gal was eliminated for blood in the mouth in the GP Special at Aachen. Perhaps she is upset about the lameness of the competing Totilas, Gal’s rollkur and bloody mouth in competition, and the rough riding at the Young Horse final. All show a lack of sympathy for the horse. Perhaps it’s just this weekend’s combination of all those things in leg flailing dressage that has upset her.

[Crockpot]

Gal was eliminated for blood in the mouth in the GP Special at Aachen. Perhaps she is upset about the lameness of the competing Totilas, Gal’s rollkur and bloody mouth in competition, and the rough riding at the Young Horse final. All show a lack of sympathy for the horse. Perhaps it’s just this weekend’s combination of all those things in leg flailing dressage that has upset her

There were many correct and harmonious rides at Aachen.

One horse bites his lip and is eliminated (as it should be). One horse gets tongue over the bit and rider asks to be excused (as it should be). The Totilas controversy is nothing new- fortunately he was withdrawn from competition and sent for an MRI(as it should be- perhaps should have been rung out - I would leave that for the vets to debate ).

Just watching the freestyle today - didnt watch every ride but saw no rough riding. Which rides were awful?

I think these broad brush comments about rough riding and leg flinging and the horrible state of dressage are unfair to all those dedicated and skilled trainers who work hard but are meticulously careful with the well being of their horses.

Some people only see the negatives. The constant handwringing gets old.

try looking for something positive to say.

[marianne]

The best positive in dressage today has to be Carl Hester with his management of the horse and his patience in allowing a horse to develop.

[PeanutButterPony]

good heavens. for all we know she spent the day drinking with Tina and got dehydrated in the sunshine and all weepy about what used to be, in the good old days.

It’s FACEBOOK. It’s not the 15, I mean 10, 10 Commandments!

Who Noes.

[khall]

IMO because EG with Undercover scored over 80% in GP with incorrect basis in his training as evidenced by many pictures taken in warmup. Those were RK with harsh backwards riding yet he can still present a test that judges score highly. Undercover has many many holes in his work, canter is appalling, changes are crooked and over bent, piris are horrid, no true extensions yet he still can score so high. I liked EG riding Toto saw them live at WEG 2010, cannot abide EG riding Undercover, he shows all that I hate about international dressage.

[Mardi]

@LarkspurCO;8275001

Here’s the same post with comments, including one from Robert Dover. You don’t need a Facebook account to see it.

At last, some damage control from the Chef d’Equipe.

From FB:

“Robert Dover: Deb, let’s keep producing top combinations in the USA who can compete against those at the top of the sport using less than classical methods and beat them. We have to not just complain about the state of the sport but rather be determined to be the solution. Beautifully trained horses and riders who show harmony and love is what we are about and I think we proved that in Europe as well as at the Pan American Games this year. Our best are close to or on the scores of their best and we will keep producing more depth of great riders on gorgeous and beautifully schooled horses and ponies until we lead the world in Dressage!
GO DEBBIE AND GO TEAM USA!!!”

[Mardi]

@skydy;8275030

Hmmm… still not clear what specifically is the matter and what triggered this statement but people are sometimes more comfortable with generalizations when complaining in public.

Perhaps it has to do with Totilas and his obvious lameness. He was trotted three times in the FEI jog, and finally passed. Clearly he was off during his test; the judges didn’t ring him, and Rath didn’t stop. The lameness was serious enough that it didn’t just start when he trotted into the Aachen stadium. Now T. is diagnosed with periostitis and his future show career is in serious jeopardy.

BUT he was there for the Euro Championships and was trying to help Germany achieve a gold medal. Debbie may be asking “At what price do we continue to compete these horses ?” and she’s questioning her involvement in such a sport.

Just a thought…

[asminton]

https://www.facebook.com/DianeBliessen/videos/959979567398339/

[Rusalka]

I think there are a couple things at play. These past two weeks have been an almost perfect storm. There is the young horse final, specifically Fiontina’s test. There is the vet examination of Totilas in which a “hind end irregularity” was found and yet he was still allowed to complete a painful-looking test in the ring. Gal’s warm up, and the erratic scores awarded (totilas gets a 75.971%) are the icing on the cake.

In short, I would be plenty frustrated if I were a professional looking at my peers’ actions within the past week alone. I recently just revisited the video of Reiner Klimke warming up Biotop at Aachen '95. To me, that is poetry in motion, absolutely light. The movements are almost joyful to me (not quite the right word…). i.e. I can tell the horse is happy. What a difference 20 years has made.