Why is it always Nuno Oliveira? (this is a rhetorical question, I don’t really want to know).
Because they don’t want the horse on the vertical??- they want that head up and out of the way so that back can squat and get up under the horse-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz7oUX9Kw7w
It’s horrific, yes. but no, you won’t see someone pulling a TWH’s head down and in- it’s not the goal.
[QUOTE=skydy;8277410]
Why is it always Nuno Oliveira? (this is a rhetorical question, I don’t really want to know).[/QUOTE]
This is the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything. Silly.
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8277464]
This is the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything. Silly.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
Nuno Oliveira and the meaning of life…
42
Who is this Mark Russell and how did he come to be flopping around in this thread? I get that he is a man in Western wear with stiff arms and tight hips, but what’s he doing here?
I’ve always wondered why NO, too. Why? WHY?
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8277483]
Who is this Mark Russell and how did he come to be flopping around in this thread? I get that he is a man in Western wear with stiff arms and tight hips, but what’s he doing here?[/QUOTE]
I don’t know…Is he responsible for the “Horse Riding Tips-N-Chat” site linked to in Khall’s post? I guess not, since I can’t find the name of the person responsible for it but there is a picture of a woman in the “staying in touch” page…
Is he your trainer Khall? Surely not.
That sale video was strange. To show that an 8yr old horse consents to pick up his feet when asked is just odd.
Yesterday when I was riding I had a mental picture of RK (Klimke, not rollkur) in that video that was posted and I tried to envision being him and putting my hands forward and being light and it gave me a great feeling. 
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8277483]
Who is this Mark Russell and how did he come to be flopping around in this thread? I get that he is a man in Western wear with stiff arms and tight hips, but what’s he doing here?[/QUOTE] I brought him into the thread. Sorry. He is Khall’s trainer. What does that say about her opinion?
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8277333]
There is this dressage horse offered for sale that he trained: http://youtu.be/zEYkhHkLNCo[/QUOTE]
Alibi & Khall - avec tout mon respect - with all the respect that you both deserve, M. Russel does not ride this particular horse in this particular video with the kind of impulsion, soft connection and, frankly, schwung with which N. Oliveira rode his horses although M. Russel did indeed study under Oliveira decades ago. I was so very fortunate to see Oliveira ride twice in my lifetime once on a lusitano and once (and more interesting to me) on a Don horse (a type of Russian WB horse who was BTW, not easy that particular day) in his manege in Malveira, Por.
I worked for D. Jose d’Athayde (his longtime student) for several years. d’Atayde’s horses had impulsion & schwung! They were of various breeds and yet all had exhibited the utmost softness but had go!
I have done some research on M. Russel the few videos that are on the internet show him demonstrating the flexions, on the ground and in the saddle, and only the one, posted above with him in the irons. I would like to see more. However I am hoping that he is not like many of the classical riders and trainers who work almost exclusively on the horse’s relaxation and suppleness. Indeed they tend to ignore the gymnastics and strengthening that Oliveira, d’Athyade, Henriquet, B. Drummond, U. Graf, I. Klimke (and her father) advocate among a whole host of others.
Frankly there are way to many demonstrations of classical dressage out there that sidestep the gymnastics part completely, and so we see only the "happy, content horse who is in a “zen, tranquil moment” but without expression, strength, thrust combined with obvious softness.
However these more classic methods do take longer, they require patience and time. RK and LDR, even done for a few minutes, is effective and does produce results (in the highest realms of competition), which is why we see it so practised so often.
It is not my “cup of tea” and I voluntarily choose never to employ it in my training.
The R. Klimke video says it all and thank you Rusalka for posting it.
[QUOTE=Rusalka;8275792]sure, here it is:
Oh. This man trains dressage riders and calls his method “Artistic Dressage” ?
Apparently he was taught by N.Oliveira and Pat Parelli.
Here he is
http://www.naturaldressage.com/history/
No show record at Centerline Scores.
Back to the topic… Was a link to this article already shared in this thread?
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2015/08/14/holland-takes-spoils-scandalous-team-battle-2015-european-dressage-championships
I found it interesting.
BelgianWBluver : :eek: WHOA!!! Don’t associate me with Khall or this Russell guy. Someone asked for a video of his prouesse and I just provided one. :winkgrin:
Here is one of Nuno : http://youtu.be/TfiTTyi2He8 Do people really think this is better riding than what we can see today? Nuno was undoubtly a dressage master but he’s nowhere near the “lovey dovey” people want to believe he was.
[QUOTE=Justice~for~Horses;8277543]
I brought him into the thread. Sorry. He is Khall’s trainer. What does that say about her opinion?[/QUOTE]
I don’t know. Her opinion never mattered to me in the first place, except that I found the uneducated thrashing to be rude and mean-spirited.
But knowing this, it’s a rabbit hole I’d rather step over than into. Mark Russell strikes me as yet another gimicky clinician who engenders a cult-like (and profitable) following. He may truly believe what he is doing and teaching is dressage, and the students may truly believe they are on the “enlightened path.”
Having experienced enough of this kind of thing myself and having come to know some of these clinicians (participated a few times myself) and their students, I find them in general to be nice, well-meaning people but also very single-minded. I doubt there will be anything to gain engaging in further discussion along that vein.
[QUOTE=skydy;8277566]Back to the topic… Was a link to this article already shared in this thread?
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2015/08/14/holland-takes-spoils-scandalous-team-battle-2015-european-dressage-championships
I found it interesting.[/QUOTE]
Scandalous! There’s that word!!
[QUOTE=alibi_18;8277603]
BelgianWBluver : :eek: WHOA!!! Don’t associate me with Khall or this Russell guy. Someone asked for a video of his prouesse and I just provided one. :winkgrin:[/QUOTE]
OOOh Sorry Alibi !!! :o I really should have known better to think that you actually advocated this particular demonstration as true quality !!
In all fairness and without the unnecessary “snark” that plaques these types of threads - I would like to see more demonstrations of M. Russell’s actually riding so that I may form a more educated opinion…
[QUOTE=LarkspurCO;8277604]
I don’t know. Her opinion never mattered to me in the first place, except that I found the uneducated thrashing to be rude and mean-spirited.
But knowing this, it’s a rabbit hole I’d rather step over than into. Mark Russell strikes me as yet another gimicky clinician who engenders a cult-like (and profitable) following. He may truly believe what he is doing and teaching is dressage, and the students may truly believe they are on the “enlightened path.”
Having experienced enough of this kind of thing myself and having come to know some of these clinicians (participated a few times myself) and their students, I find them in general to be nice, well-meaning people but also very single-minded. I doubt there will be anything to gain engaging in further discussion along that vein.
Scandalous! There’s that word!![/QUOTE]
I took the “scandalous” reference to mean the lameness issue(s). Apparently Totilas was not the only horse that looked “uneven”.
[QUOTE=skydy;8277627]
I took the “scandalous” reference to mean the lameness issue(s). Apparently Totilas was not the only horse that looked “uneven”.[/QUOTE]
Someone posted that same story on another thread about Aachen. Astrid Appels has been gunning for the Dutch and beating the rollkur drum for quite some time. I think you can read quite a bit into her use of the term “scandalous.”
MOR if you read my posts re Toto/EG I agree with you on him not riding him in true RK, the pair at WEG absolutely should and did win, best combination there. Still problems mainly with tempi/extensions that were lower scored, what I saw in tempos were EG shortening Toto up, not riding uphill and ground covering. Now his 3 Ps were the best there, so yes he should have won. Undercover is no where near the horse Toto was though, much tension and disharmony between the pair. I like the article shydy linked, pretty much where I am at with international dressage. How on one hand can Valegro score so high and deservedly so then Undercover is just a hairs breath away with obvious tension and issues throughout the test? Not just mistakes but TRAINING issues?
I have been lucky to be around and learn from quite a few BNT and classical trainers, my first experience was with Rochovanski (sp, never can spell his name) who trained HG/Keen and was head rider under Podhajsky at the Spanish Riding school. Anne Ticehurst would bring him to FL regularly and I rode with Ms. Anne. I have also been exposed, ridden with various other competitive riders/trainers. I do and have ridden with Mark, I like how he teaches have learned much from him. No belgiumWBlover he does not just teach flexions or relaxation though that is the base of his teachings. Forward and engaged is very much a part of his teachings depending on the rider, some are not there yet beginning riders with green horses. Competition is not Mark’s focus nor is it mine though I have competed and do some still (schooling shows now because of cost), most riders Mark teaches are not dressage focused very different from most on this thread. I still value what he brings to the table having ridden with competitive trainers in the past, even more so.
here are my scores from showing years ago http://www.centerlinescores.com/Rider/Details/21709#filterBy=tests
this was riding a homebred Han/TB mare Grecor who did not have a very good canter but was very steady, riding a hot screwed up OTTB Zephyr/Master Card (no papers on him) that once got a 9 for lengthening under Axel Steiner at 1st, 8s on extensions at 3rd, the sport horse shows were with the gelding I ride now, all of this before I rode with Mark, when I rode with other competitive trainers.
Oh I thought it was Bengt Ljungquist who had trained HG and Keen. Didn’t know Franz Rohvansky had a hand in their training also - Enlighten me on when he worked with HG and Keen!! Fastinating…
