I watched it with my husband and after her first extended trot I said that horse is not right. That’s not Bretina and something is going on. At the end she was ready to high tail it out of the ring if Debbie would have let her, this could have been from fear or from pain, who knows. But IMO and its just mine that has never ridden at that level, I thing something is wrong with her physically and I tend to think it was a little bit of everywhere. Her front end and her hindend. Maybe she was just very sore and all the practice and warmup made it worse before they went in or maybe its something worse. I’m sure we will out find out soon enough.
Yes she trucks along, but she is a opinionated, big, Chestnut mare and I read that it was a sometimes difficult road to create the partnership they have. I would imagine like many opinionated mares, while she often appears a saint and would die for her rider, it’s not always “easy”. To me Brentina looked like she was having a bad day all around - probably a combination of the heat, having a creaky old body that has been doing GP for many years now, and a little “I don’t feel like it today” mare syndrome.
Everyone needs to grow up on these sites. Who are you to judge anyone. Everyone is blasting everyone, including Debbie, and we don’t even know she’s done anything wrong. Three vets have said after the test that the horse is sound. This is on The Dressage Update for the Olympics on this website, so look it up and read it for youself. Talk to them and tell them not to insult us if thats how you want to react.
Fair enough Ridgeback and I said if the horse was just uneven like she was at the selection trial, I might have ridden her into the ring too. Just the uneveness in those movements and to that degree and I think the US could have got the Bronze no problem. I don’t think riding a horse with that degree of uneveness is super nice but it is not blantant abuse either. It was the performance in the canter work and the last trot extension after she was truly messed up that was so horrible.
If the horse was having those canter issues, prior to this test, I think I would have gotten off and hid in the bathroom. No one can make you ride after all. But I don’t have any reason to think that what happened in the canter was going on before the test. If it was well then that is something else. Someone should then have kept them from going in. But I have no reason to believe that this is the case.
Perfect Pony, I do not consider Brentina big nor strong. Debbie picked her because she is light to ride and she is a smaller rider. Brentina is only 16.2 The horse that Gina Miles won silver on is 17.3. That’s big.
Also I have seen Brentina in situations where other horses would loose it performing like a total champ. I saw her before she was Grand Prix doing a demonstration at the World Cup in Vegas when it was just a Jumping competition. A younger more inexperienced horse and still a SAINT. Debbie does not pick the horses Anky or Edward Gal picks. She, like most of us out there, does not want to ride the truly hot difficult ones. Even more reason why the claim that this horse was moving that way and performing that way due to being spooked is utterly ridiculous.
[QUOTE=kkj;3446719]
Fair enough Ridgeback and I said if the horse was just uneven like she was at the selection trial, I might have ridden her into the ring too. Just the uneveness in those movements and to that degree and I think the US could have got the Bronze no problem. I don’t think riding a horse with that degree of uneveness is super nice but it is not blantant abuse either. It was the performance in the canter work and the last trot extension after she was truly messed up that was so horrible.
If the horse was having those canter issues, prior to this test, I think I would have gotten off and hid in the bathroom. No one can make you ride after all. But I don’t have any reason to think that what happened in the canter was going on before the test. If it was well then that is something else. Someone should then have kept them from going in. But I have no reason to believe that this is the case.[/QUOTE]
Just to be clear I never said anything about abuse…
You’re right Ridgeback. I did not mean to come across that you said anything about abuse. You said it was a mistake and I agree. It retrospect it was definitely a mistake. I don’t think Debbie was abusing Brentina, nor Klaus or anyone else. I am sure some people do however. It is all a matter or opinions and degrees. Some people think she was totally sound. Some people think she is head bobbing lame. Some people think she is a princess. Some people think riding her was abuse. Bottom line, Brentina has earned her retirement and I am certain she will have the best of care and continue to be much loved.
I just wish they could be more honest about what did go down.
As I stated earlier, Brentina could have had a charley horse (or horses) due to an electrolyte imbalance. Also, a tight muscle is a shortened muscle, therefore a shortening of stride in that limb. Horses can tie up anywhere in their body, it doesn’t have to be in the hind end. I once knew a horse that only tied up in the shoulders. Since horses do not understand what is going on with their bodies, they only know that they are crampy, etc. and that in itself has to be terrifying. If any of you have had a muscle spasm, you know what I’m talking about. Also, you have a team of 3 in there. If someone doesn’t compete, the team is out. By finishing the test, Debbie did not compromise Brentina’s health as if she were on a cross country course with fences left to jump. Would I have competed my horse? Moot point because I am so protective of my horses that I’d never ship one to China for a competition (even the Olympics) in the first place.
Well I guess we can disagree on that I guess, this coming from a 5’6" rider on a 15.1 hand horse 
Every time I have seen Debbie ride Brentina I have thought, that looks like one big, powerful mare for that tiny woman.
Compare Debbie’s/Brentina’s ride to say, Isabell Werth’s. Was Werth’s ride really 16 points better? When she was done and fist pumped the air I had to wonder what she was so happy about, but I guess a German knows what they have to, or don’t have to do, to get a high score. Compare the piaffe and canter pirouette in particular. The piaffe is worse, even without the kick out, and the pirouette is about the same. If Debbie were German she would have done much better, or vice versa.
[QUOTE=Perfect Pony;3446786]
Well I guess we can disagree on that I guess, this coming from a 5’6" rider on a 15.1 hand horse
Every time I have seen Debbie ride Brentina I have thought, that looks like one big, powerful mare for that tiny woman.[/QUOTE]
Brentina looks like she’s picked up some mass in the last few years. Even my DH asked if that was a huge horse or a tiny rider. But yes, by height anyway she’s a very normal size, even smallish for a dressage horse.
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/dressage/OGAttachmentB.pdf
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/dressage/OGAttachmentD.pdf
to start
Can someone please post a link to Isabell’s and Anky’s ride on youtube? thanks
[QUOTE=Lookout;3446790]
Compare Debbie’s/Brentina’s ride to say, Isabell Werth’s. Was Werth’s ride really 16 points better? When she was done and fist pumped the air I had to wonder what she was so happy about, but I guess a German knows what they have to, or don’t have to do, to get a high score. Compare the piaffe and canter pirouette in particular. The piaffe is worse, even without the kick out, and the pirouette is about the same. If Debbie were German she would have done much better, or vice versa.[/QUOTE]
Are you serious??
[QUOTE=SGray;3446799]
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/dressage/OGAttachmentB.pdf
http://www.usef.org/documents/highPerformance/dressage/OGAttachmentD.pdf
to start[/QUOTE]
Yikes no thank you…
I absolutely adore both Debbie and Brentina and have seen the two compete on many occasions. I am a bit sceptical though when Debbie says the mare was ‘terrified’ and was spooking. Brentina is 17 years old and a ‘been there, done that’ kind of mare who has been in a lot of competition rings. I think that saying that the mare was lame is a harsh term. The mare DID pass a jog in front of FEI veterinarians. She wasn’t ‘lame’ in the canter or piaffe/passage tour of the test, just ‘uneven’ in the trot. An uneven trot may not have shown up at the jog since it would have not been a full out extension, which the test was. Regardless, it was a sad ending to her wonderful career. Debbie can hold her head up that she did her very best. :sadsmile:
In a nutshell…yes. Werth’s ride was 16 points better.
The piaffe is more than a trot in place, it involves flexing the hocks and sitting, taking weight onto the hind end while moving the legs in the rhythm of the gait. Same with the canter pirouettes - it’s not just about the size of the circle they make with their hind feet. Don’t forget the straightness of the line between canter pirouettes, either. If you look at the two rides you will see one horse clearly more comfortable with using its hind end, flexing its joints, and extending its shoulder than the other.
Nationality had little to do with the scoring. Don’t forget, one of the judges was american. He scored Debbie 15 points lower than Isabell, too.
[QUOTE=Mardi;3444894]
Horrified ? Good grief. The US team finished FOURTH in the Olympics for crissake. There are many other teams that would love to change places. Are we disappointed ? Yes. But horrified ? Absolutley not.
You don’t know “Stephen” ? Neither do we, as there isn’t a Stephen on the US dressage team.
I watched Brentina’s test as many of us did…Thursday morning, live, online.
Brentina entered the ring with a calm, relaxed eye…ready to work, as usual. There was nothing to alert anyone in the audience that she was not herself. Debbie also looked ready to go. Again, there was nothing that alerted anyone to the trouble that was to come.
Yes the horse was uneven. Then she appeared to work out of it. But at one point, something got to her, and Brentina lost her confidence. As the test progressed, the more unsettled she became. Unfocused.
Can you imagine what that does to a consumate professional such as Brentina ? A horse who has no worries. Who has complete trust in all around her ? She becomes even more unhinged because she IS unhinged. I’ve seen it happen with horses, haven’t you ?
And at the final salute, the look on Debbie’s face, on the verge of tears.
Brentina’s piaffes were the best, IMHO, of the class. Even better than Salinero. Astrid’s article said so: “…which moved into a stunning passage and piaffe. It was unbelievable what was going on. Brentina was probably showing one of the best piaffe-passages seen so far in the Olympic Grand Prix. So smooth, so regular, well engaged.”
Huffing and puffing ? The weather at the time was 84F (29c) with 83% humidity. That translates into a “feels like” of 95F or 35C temperature. Those conditions are tough on a heavy warmblood such as Brentina. Yes, it was tough on all of the horses. And yes, other horses were breathing hard too. Many of us watched the entire class. We heard them.
Spooky ? Could be. Debbie would know. She was on the horse. The Portugese rider before Jan Brink retired from the class after his horse spooked. Can you imagine coming all the way to Hong Kong for the Olympics and you’re in the ring for 15 seconds and then that’s it ? The end ? Oh, and the Japanese rider’s horse spooked and wheeled the other way in his test. He continued though, but his good score was ruined.
Many of you will remember the champion tennis palyer Jimmy Connors. Ever seen him double fault ? He has. In a big match. On TV. In front of millions. We stil think of him as a champion, though.
Brentina was not her wonderful self in the class. We love this mare, don’t we ? As if she was our own ? Instead of all the this and that, and Klaus this and Klaus that, remember that eveyone did the best they could at the time. Brentina too. She did her best under the circumstances, whatever they were…
Let’s give Brentina some credit, shall we ? It was a rough outing for her. It happens,
And there’s one rider who’s already upset enough…we don’t need to add to it.[/QUOTE]
I love how this post is written and I agree with you 100 percent.
If you were in an Olympic Ring, your team counting on you, youre not sure exactly what is going on with your horse…how would you handle it? Would you asked to be excused or would you try to push through the rough parts. I didn’t think she looked horrible until she started the pirouettes…and apparently the judges agree because she was scoring 7s and 8s up until that point.
Debbie did the best she could, her horse is heavy and big…no doubt she had trouble breathing in that humidity.
Kudos to our US riders…all of them. And STEFFAN’s horse was BEAUTIFUL…LOVED HIM. Courtney and Debbie are two of the most elegant riders that I have had the pleasure of watching perform.
So we didn’t medal…life will go on. Here’s hoping to Brentina having a wonderful retirement…Heck, I’d take her for a lower level schoolmistress if Debbie’s offering her up…LOL!
How sad.:no:
It’s impossible to tell exactly what’s going on from watching a tape, IMHO. But to me it seems like Brentina is physically struggling throughout the test, at some moments clearly more so than others, but never, ever does she look comfortable, loose, sparkly, free, or confident. At the same time, Brentina gives me the impression that she is doing her very best to perform for Debbie, who looks equally pained.
I wouldn’t mind having her in any broodmare band, even 17yo. :yes:
