Debbies explanation for what went wrong with Brentina

If one of the judges was so strongly convienced that the mare was unsound…why didn’t he stop her test? Wasn’t that one of his responsibility as a judge?

One point to keep in mind from someone with a bad back…normally I am fine and no one would know I have back problems. But when I am tensed or stress, wow, it’s amazing how my back issues show themselves. So it’s possible that her tension and fear results in a magnification of a weakness in her. (This would explain why she checked fine before and after the ride.) But unless we were there, we will never truely know what went on.

Debbie has always been a class act so I’m going to give her the benefit of the doubt!

Isn’t that the truth! :yes: :yes:

[QUOTE=grayarabpony;3446657]
You must not have seen Brentina on a good day before. For years she’s had the best piaffe of any horse in the world.[/QUOTE]

No, I think that would be Balagur…

[QUOTE=hansiska;3446677]
Regarding my statement that one of the judges made the strongest statement of all:

As was cited earlier in this thread (see p2):

Fouarge was the judge at C.

Edited to add: I totally agree with you, kkj
__________________[/QUOTE]

I think that was a particularly rude and indiscreet thing for a judge to say, not to mention in public. I would hope given the vet reports that an apology would be forthcoming to Debbie. The horse was freaking out, paralyzed with fear and I think it is only because she depends on her rider that she didn’t just spin and bolt. I cannot imagine what it is like for a horse to come around a corner and mentally process the sight of a horse the size of a two story building aiming right at him.

I think it’s important to notice what the judge at C very carefully said:

“Chairman Gislain Fouarge explained afterwards that he felt Brentina had not been in the right shape to perform a test at all. ‘She shouldn’t have done this to her horse’,he said.”

Fouarge did not say lame. He DID say the horse “had not been in the right shape”, thereby sidestepping the she-was-lame-and-why-didn’t-the-judges-excuse-her problem. Most damning, of course, is the statement that McDonald shouldn’t have done this to the horse.

Everyone can debate the lame-or-not issue all day – and they have. As I’ve said, I think it was a perfect storm of problems for Brentina, likely including tendon issues combined with heat and humidity that might have caused her to tie up. As kkj has put it so well, none of us can say we wouldn’t have made McDonald’s same choices; a lot of the decision-making wasn’t McDonald’s to make, adding to the perfect storm of issues for Brentina.

I just wish they’d be honest about it all and not try to make us think the horse’s performance was simply the result of a spooky environment. As I also said before, I’ve yet to meet a horse whose fear manifests itself in diagonal legs.

It is the Bill Clinton syndrome.:yes:

I trust an Olympic judge to say if a horse is in the right shape to do a GP test or not. If it had Fouarge that upset, it was a problem.

It’s likely that the judge saw more than we were able to see. The judge watched the horse warmup around the outside of the ring, and had the horse go by right next to Fouarge, and could hear much better the foot falls and the horse’s movements are much more clear to someone with that good an eye. And as for why Fouarge spoke up and no one else did…vive la France. Vive la difference.

I think it is also likely that the official response we hear is more about the tidiness and good news and PR of the Olympics than anything else.

I think horses are not excused unless they are consistently uneven thru most of the test in all 3 gaits. We had that discussion about horses with stringhalt being off at the walk but not being disqualified. The horse has to be consistently off at all 3 gaits to be excused.

And if signing up for these competitions takes all the control out of the owner’s hands, so that the coach or others decide if a rider can decline to ride or not, why would Balkenhol put a horse in the ring that another judge says is not fit to do the test? After many years at that level, Balkenhol probably knows Fouarge very well, realizes just how Fouarge would react, and is very aware of how a large number of people would react very negatively to seeing Brentina perform that way…really, none of this is adding up at all, either the suggestion that Brentina just spooked and was uneven due to tension, nor the theory that given the rules Balkenhol would knowingly decide to put a not-fit horse in the ring. Neither of these things make any sense. There is missing information.

And no. Spooking and tension does not make a horse THAT uneven.

[QUOTE=AiryFairy;3446925]
No, I think that would be Balagur…[/QUOTE]

I don’t know who Balagur is… but Brentina does have an excellent piaffe and has for years. Unlike Salinero, who did not even do anything really resembling a piaffe when he won Olympic Gold 4 years ago.

Not true. I’ve seen 2 horses at different shows under different judges excused due to lameness well before they ever got to the canter work in their tests. I was scribing for the judge in one of those instances.

Can someone point out on the youtube video where she spooked. She seemed ok walking on a long rein in her test? thanks Does anyone have the link to Isabell and Anky’s ride on yourtube? thanks

Michael Barisone

Poor Debbie, I would really like to know what Michael Barisone thinks…He’s been watching Debbie and Brentina for weeks and I can’t imagine he wouldn’t say something if he felt the horse was unsound. He’s not one to keep quiet!!!

Again, horses very commonly don’t show lameness in more collected work, the extended trot is what really opens the kimino.

[QUOTE=ridgeback;3447037]
Can someone point out on the youtube video where she spooked. She seemed ok walking on a long rein in her test? thanks Does anyone have the link to Isabell and Anky’s ride on yourtube? thanks[/QUOTE]

isabell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBd4Auc5pK0&feature=related

anky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vROeTxvc3qs&feature=related

steffen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgWB6RJ1XTg&feature=related

broodmare?

Hi,

Because this thread is on Brentina and many seem to know a lot about her, can I gently inquire…

Are there plans to breed her (presumably using ET)? What an incredible set of genes to pass on to the future…

Stacey

[QUOTE=staceyk;3447137]
Hi,

Because this thread is on Brentina and many seem to know a lot about her, can I gently inquire…

Are there plans to breed her (presumably using ET)? What an incredible set of genes to pass on to the future…

Stacey[/QUOTE]

Why ET?

[QUOTE=class;3447121]
isabell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBd4Auc5pK0&feature=related

anky: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vROeTxvc3qs&feature=related

steffen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgWB6RJ1XTg&feature=related[/QUOTE]

Thank you so much…:smiley:

ET

I’m not savvy about breeding but am thinking 17 a little old to be a first time mommy? Aso that isn’t exactly retirement (not the kind of retirement I dream about, anyway).

Edited: Also, didn’t she used to be a chronic colicker? I seem to remember some close calls, and an interview with DM where she expressed fear that she might lose her at any time, etc. etc.

[QUOTE=plainsailing;3447032]
I don’t know who Balagur is… but Brentina does have an excellent piaffe and has for years. Unlike Salinero, who did not even do anything really resembling a piaffe when he won Olympic Gold 4 years ago.[/QUOTE]

All Salinero does is move his hind legs, and not in a collected way. Balagur, he’s adorable, and I’ve never seen a piaffe like his. And she kisses him at the end sniff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaiVtHS6VrI
He can also be seen in part II of the dressage on nbc video at about 3:08

If they excused her, then they should have excused others. It’s a slippery slope once it’s started.

Unless the horse is head-bobbing lame, everyone stays in the pool.

[QUOTE=kkj;3446661]
Don’t agree with that at all. Aragon maybe, never Brentina.[/QUOTE]

Aragon ? Guenter’s gray horse ? His piaffe was rarely correct. He lifted from the hocks, not the stifle and hip. It improved the older he got, but was never really right.