Decision Made TY!

[AAHunterGal]

So I just received a TB gelding on a Lease to Purchase plan.

When he stepped off the trailer, he wasn’t as advertised (go into the ring tomorrow and start jumping around courses if you want to). His BCS is only 3 (confirmed by vet today). Videos hid this condition very well.

As such, I’m going to need to spend at least the next month or two getting his weight and muscle back up before I can do any sort of riding that I had planned for in this window, as well as getting his teeth done and other support to get him back into good shape.

Would you reach out to the owner and try to renegotiate the terms of the lease to purchase considering all of the $$ and time I’m going to need to put into this horse right now? Or is this on me because I did it off the video?

Or, would you just suck it up and not rock the boat?

Thoughts?

[fivestrideline]

What’s in your contract? If you can be pretty unemotional, send him back. But that would be tough for me to do in your position, I’ll admit.

Do you like him, or think he’s worth it as a project? You might be able to renegotiate with the owner - get a “plan” from your vet (maybe with pics of Dobbin before you pack weight on him), a ballpark of costs, and see if the owner will lower the price. I wouldn’t buy him outright yet, just in case there’s a reason he’s thin (behavioral or physical). But a renegotiation of terms might be in order - though don’t be surprised if they try to blame his condition on the haul to you.

[AAHunterGal]

Yeah, I could send him back but don’t really want to - he’s a cool horse and very sweet/good head on his shoulders, and does have a great jump in him.

I’m sure he’s very wormy (just did the fecal count today) so that’s probably not helping him. We also need to get his teeth floated. Once those two things are done he SHOULD put weight on more easily, and we have him on a good plan feed wise to correct it.

His condition is documented with pictures and vet exam today confirmed the BCS in writing.

[fivestrideline]

Yeah I’d see if maybe the owner will negotiate the purchase price with the remedial work in mind. Get yourself a nice little project for a good deal! And post progress pics!

[Inimitable]

As much as I’d be quietly seething, I’d probably let it go. I’ve come to accept that my standards are higher than pretty much everyone else I deal with, so teeth, worming, weight and muscle building for a month or two would almost be expected - even if he was advertised as ready to go. ‘Ready to step into the ring’ means very different things to different people. It sucks, but if you like him and plan to keep him assuming no major issues come up I’d just eat the cost of getting him up to your standards. (FWIW I follow you on SM and he is NICE and I would absolutely be keeping him too.)

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

If you can do it in a way to not burn bridges, I’d just offer some honest feedback.
Nothing wrong with saying… “hey, I love Trotsky so much, but I gotta be honest, when we did a quick once over with my vet and farrier, there’s some concerns. If you’ve got some time to connect in the next week or 2, let’s just chat about it and maybe you can fill in some of the blanks? I just want to offer some feedback and see if maybe you’ve got some suggestions?”
Most BNTs are going to want to stand by their horses, so even if it’s not the direct trainer but an assistant or pro that’s been doing the work, they’ll most likely be willing to chat. Be flexible and understanding if they need the next 3 weeks to wrap up winter circuit, but definitely stay on them to give them some honest feedback about his condition.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

Are you sure the horse you got is the same horse in the video?

[AAHunterGal]

Yes, definitely same horse. He doesn’t look as bad in the videos I take either, I think because he’s pretty long/elegant and the video softens things.

[AnastasiaBeaverhousen]

You can always reach out to the owner with your concerns.

If all they want is just to get the horse off their hands they might be willing to work with you.

It may not take as long as you think to get him back into riding condition. Tbs gain weight very easily. Especially since you are addressing the dental and parasites.

If you haven’t already, you may want to have the vet scope for ulcers. It isn’t unusual for TBs to have ulcers .

[2bayboys]

Can you have your trainer reach out and ask to have the lease terms renegotiated? Perhaps just by extending the lease to account for the 1-2 months it will take to get him to the point where you thought he was when you signed the lease?

[Inimitable]

I think I remember reading you had a PPE done before he came up, right? Did that vet make any remarks about his condition? Seems like a 3 BCS would definitely be noted, unless the vet wasn’t totally on the up and up.

I don’t know … putting him on a trailer and sending him back seems pretty extreme to me if he’s otherwise what you want in a horse. Growthy 5yo OTTBs can look like crap real quick, especially after a long haul and major life upheaval. I’m not saying the BNT didn’t do you wrong and possibly misrepresent him, but if you have confidence in the PPE vet and that the owner didn’t lie about something major I’d keep going with your program - I bet he starts looking and feeling good pretty quickly.

[AAHunterGal]

@AnastasiaBeaverhousen

If you haven’t already, you may want to have the vet scope for ulcers. It isn’t unusual for TBs to have ulcers .

I’m hopefully going to see if the teeth and parasites being addressed does the trick. Fortunately, he doesn’t have any other “ulcer” types of symptoms.

[fivestrideline]

You can always do a course of Nexium or pop rocks to see if it helps for very little money. Or put him on a gut supp to ease the transition. But I’d be starting with teeth and worms first too

[AAHunterGal]

@fivestrideline

You can always do a course of Nexium or pop rocks to see if it helps for very little money. Or put him on a gut supp to ease the transition. But I’d be starting with teeth and worms first too

Yep, he’s on a stomach and a hind gut supplement. I would do Nexium/Pop rocks if he doesn’t put on any weight after we address teeth and get him dewormed.

PPE vet said that he needed to put on some weight, but didn’t sound so concerned that I thought it would be more than your standard TB build.

I haven’t had him very long. I will probably just see how things go over the next month and take him for some long walks around the property / go over poles while we’re trying to get him both fit and fat(ter).

[Punkie]

Out of curiosity, how long was the trip? Not saying that this is 100% the cause of his less-than-stellar body condition, but I’m wondering if he looked better in the videos because he didn’t travel well. I’ve had a few who are nervous travelers leave from my farm in Florida and show up to my farm in New England (horses that I own and care for daily) look quite gaunt following a 24 hour trip. I have one who looks so bad after traveling long distances that he either goes over a week with several 2-3 day stops or doesn’t go at all.

If the horse is otherwise the horse you were expecting (particularly in terms of his brain/personality), I’d not rock the boat unless specifically asked how he’s doing. I think there would be nothing wrong with conveying a vet-confirmed body score, particularly if you have that in writing, and making mention of a high fecal count - again, have it in writing - and the findings from a dental exam. It is possible that the current owner is not overly participatory in their horse’(s’) day to day care and may be under the impression that because they board with a BNT and pay however much they pay for that “privilege”, they are receiving top notch care.

[danhelm441]

What are pop rocks? I assume not literally pop rocks like the candy?

Also fwiw, my horse looked emaciated after a fairly short but traumatic trailer ride (horse was usually heavily sedated to travel). I questioned the care he was getting at my previous barn, but I was there just about every day and had eyes on him. He’d lost condition but he hadn’t gotten that thin. Yet when I moved him, he looked like an abuse/neglect case overnight, exposed ribs and everything. I go back and forth on whether it was his winter coat hiding a gradually deteriorating body condition, or whether it really was that trailer ride… but whatever the reason, he puffed back up in just a few weeks.

[OverandOnward]

BNT knows exactly what they sent you. And where the lease is misleading. Better than anyone.

So … Wild guess based on negative life experiences … My guess is that the trainer set this up with intention. Doesn’t treat horses well who aren’t big earners, keeps their cost as low as possible. Then BNT found an ammy to take this one! On a lease-to-own, hoping ammy pays it out. But either way the horse is off the trainer’s bill for now, and trainer gets portion or all of lease payments — it’s a win-win deal for the trainer.

Maybe trainer is counting on the ammy to suck it up and not want to send it back ‘into those conditons’, fairly enough. Counting on ammy to avoid confrontation and pay out to protect the horse. So why not do this. If you see what I mean.

Personally I recommend extensive photos and video to document the horse’s condition, asap, because horses can start looking better quickly with some good care.

At the very least I would be in touch with the trainer with outrage. Demanding a revised deal if I am to keep the horse – otherwise BNT gets the horse back (guessing BNT does not want the horse back). I’d send the photos & videos and without saying so directly I’d let a little scare set in that those might go up on youtube / facebook at any time.

So, flip the usual script that puts BNT in the power position and switch it so that the ammy is now in the power position because ammy now knows something not nice about the trainer – the condition of the horse and the misleading lease.

I would demand a revised lease contract. Maybe no payments for 2 months? Plus I’m guessing that there is no way to assess the horse’s capabilities until later.

Depending on my personal options to care for this horse even if it were a lifetime pasture pet (given this is currently an unknown), I would offer the trainer an alternative deal that would relieve them of the horse but not nearly at the price they wanted.

Because who else can the BNT lease to … especially once other people know about the horse’s condition? If it comes to that.

In situations like this sometimes professionals will just take a deal that gets rid of the problem for them. They get some money, and maybe the big win is to get the horse off their bill.

I wouldn’t worry about lease terms that don’t allow this option because none of that matters isfthe trainer agrees with a change. A simple one page amendment is all that is necessary.

I wouldn’t worry about burning any bridges because that’s just me. The BNT already burned the bridge with the contract and the horse’s condition.

Just an alternative to consider.

[B_and_B]

I’ll second the question of how long and bad was the trailer ride? In my (admittedly limited) experience I had a yearling come off the trailer looking like h-ll due to a three day ride in a snowstorm. I could see an anxious 5 year old TB doing the same thing.
Also, I know I am not a hunter/jumper, just kind of wandered in killing time here. But you liked the horse enough to pay for a PPE that is passed (it did right?), pay for the shipping, pay for upkeep…? But, you might have to give it a month of conditioning and feed and that is a problem? Why?

[Amy3996]

I’ll add another tally to the trailer question. My then 5yo TB definitely looked worse for the wear after a nearly 36 hour haul from FL to NWNY.

No fault of the shipper, they took great care of him and he was in a box stall. It’s just really darn hard on them to be in transit for long stretches.

[AAHunterGal]

Trip ride was about 12 hours in a small boxstall, so not insignificant. It could be that it took more out of him than it has with other horses I’ve shipped in the past, who maybe came out a bit dehydrated but perked up again after a week. He didn’t come off the trailer sweaty or overly nervous, though, went right into the stall and settled in. But it’s definitely a possibility of why he may have been skinny and then dropped even more.

@B_and_B if the horse came at a sleek 4 or 5 and I felt like I needed to give it a month of conditioning/feed to really get a good show ring bloom on it, that’s one thing. But a BCS of 3 is not really appropriate for a horse you’re advertising for sale or lease. That’s the problem - it didn’t come just a little skinny, it came, “Wow, they were jumping that horse?”

Also should clarify that while it came from a BNT’s barn, the BNT didn’t own it / wasn’t representing it - one of his riders was selling it. I’ve seen videos of the BNT giving the rider/owner jump schools on it, so they laid eyes on it, but definitely wasn’t more than a blip on the radar. I was mainly just surprised that any horse in the operation looked like that.