Found a French stallion that looks like a nice compliment to my wonderful Simbalu mare. His description includes this language. What does this mean?
Just guessing here: horse will give athleticism (or whatever TBs give) without giving hot reactivity or winning any races? :lol:
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That reads like a poor translation from another language, whether machine or human. Whereās the original page itās on?
Editing: I deleted what I wrote because I misread. Oops.
Without more context Iām guessing he passes on positive TB traits (like stamina, athleticism, refinement) without passing on negative traits associated with TBs.
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I agree that it appears to be weird English so hard to tell what it means. But at face value: TBs have a lot of crosses in their pedigree, which is a nice way of saying inbreeding. So if you say something can be crossed ālikeā a tb you may be referring to the prevelance of inbreeding.
Thanks for the thoughts. New Normandy frozen of Calypso dāHerbiers. I was clicking around the COTH stallion links.
I would assume this is written poorly, but it could also be someone who doesnāt really have much first hand knowledge of TBs. Ironically, someone who seems to have no idea how much TBs have influenced their particular stallion. Heās over 60% blood on paper, from a full TB damline, with multiple 100% TBs on the first page. TBs are over-represented in his pedigree compared to many modern jumper stallions.
Nice stallion though - but of course, that couldnāt have possibly come from all the full TBs on his page. :lol:
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Exactly, thank you. Courage, athleticism, scope, versatility, jumping ability, couldnāt possibly be the influence of his Thoroughbred blood.
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From the website they mention rideability and producing ānice easy jumpersāĀ. I interpret their phrasing to mean he produces athletic and amateur friendly babies.
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I would take it to mean that he is a lightening and refining stallion that adds blood without flattening the gaits or taking away any jump. Especially since it then mentions he crosses well with big mares. With the poor english, itās easy to interpret as a dig at thoroughbreds but I donāt think that is whatās meant here.
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āOne of the rare stallions which can be crossed like a thoroughbred without its disadvantagesā.
First caveat, Iām not going to argue the value of TB blood ā that has been done ad nauseam over the last several decades on this and other forums and I have yet to see anyone, from either side, change their mind.
Second caveat, I have used a TB stallion to cover a warmblood jumping mare, so I have some actual first-hand experience besides that gleaned from behind a keyboard or recalled from the āglory days.ā
Jumper breeders are notoriously reluctant to use a TB stallion on their jumping marelines because of the perceived (actual or otherwise) diminished performance abilities of the direct offspring. For many, the purpose of using a TB stallion is to get a good half-TB filly for subsequent breeding, with the belief that the quarter-TB offspring are the most desirable in the competition ring. The reluctance comes from the 50% chance of producing a half-TB colt which many jumper breeders regard as a useless by-product. I understand the stallion owner to āclaimā that this stallion will add ābloodā and refinement without diminishing scope and power and without introducing certain conformational flaws.
European jumper breeders are still producing some very coarse and very cold horses. So there is still a need for stallions that refine and add blood. But my sense is that the jumper breeders in recent years are looking to āblood-typeā warmblood stallions like this one rather than a TB stallion.
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@Bent Hickory Which TB sire did you use?
Coming from the other side of experience, I am seeing the attitude above gradually changing as more quality TB stallions are brought to the forefront by efforts made by certain breed registries.
It may help that in other worlds outside of show-jumping, the TB blood is considered immensely valuable and a 1/2 to 3/4 TB is considered the winning combination for UL eventing.
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From personal conversations, a lot of French breeders think TBs are complete nutters so a SF with a lot of blood would be an attractive alternative to a full TB.
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Iāve used Coconut Grove three times and have doses stored in my tank for the future.
Having the breed registries promote TB stallions is entirely different from mare owners using them.
Pretty sure that my comments were limited to jumper breeders ā I donāt follow UL eventing or those who breed for that ring.
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Did you have any trouble selling them? What did you like/dislike about what CG brought to the table?
Yes, definitely. But at least some breeders (yourself included) have bred to them. As long as the option is there. Fragonard is another one I can think of that has been standing a few years, and has had good breeders use him. I donāt think he is the best a Thoroughbred stud has to offer, but he comes from absolute world-class lines and I totally understand why he was acquired.
I donāt think anyone here is debating the reluctance observed by some mare owners to breed their quality mare to a TB stallion. Thatās totally a fact I agree with.
Yup! Thatās why I included āworlds outside of SJā to make it clear I was shifting the topic to another discipline, where TBs are more commonly used. :encouragement:
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One of the biggest disadvantages in using a tb stallion is the financial bit. People rather buy tb crosses by a warmblood stallion out of a tb mare than the other way around. Thatās the sad truth which makes some highly talented and well bred tb stallions and their owners struggle to get any mares.
Using a stallion high in blood will sort that problem out. If the stallion is also a lighter type and have the actual tb lines fairly close in the pedigree it is even a bigger advantage.
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