Degenerative Myelopathy

[drawstraws]

Anyone dealt with DM? My ACD was recently diagnosed with DM, or at least something similar (the gene hasn’t been found in his breed but if it’s not DM it’s close enough). He’ll be 14 in January and he’s so wobbly in the back end it breaks my heart to watch him. His front end is sore as well but that’s more ortho, not neuro (mostly arthritis plus compensating for the hind end). He currently can still walk (like a drunk), and bunny hop/run, and get up on my bed but I just don’t know how fast this is going to progress. With the way our house is set up, I don’t think a cart will be an option (my room is on the second floor and I already have to carry his 50 pounds up and down a flight of stairs) and I dread the thought of having to make the decision to euthanize when his mind is still there and he’s bright and happy simply because his body won’t cooperate.

sigh He’s a bull in a china shop and a big, goofy dunderhead, but he’s my dunderhead and I love him. I hate this.

[wendy]

is there an underwater treadmill facility near you? that’s the only thing that seems to help. Some people have kept DM dogs going for almost a year with regular underwater work.
It’s supposedly not a painful condition if that helps at all.

[kimkatsooo]

Our German Shepard had it. He was doing fine for a long time. Some weakness in his back end but that is all THEN…one day we were outside cleaning up the yard after a wind storm.

Drago was running in and out of the pond chasing sticks and having fun swimming. I looked over to see him pulling his self out of the pond with NO movement in his backend We carried him the rest of the way up the pond bank and let him lay down on the grass. He could not wag his tail or move his back legs at all. We towel dried him off and sat with him.

We could see him lose feeling and movement going up towards his front end. We called our vet and loaded him up. They had a stretcher waiting for us. We took him inside. The vet listened to what happened and examined him. It was decided to put him down before he could not breath or it got all the way up to other organs. It was moving that fast

We had 8 good years with him. I still miss him to this day. I am just glad we were home and he was having fun right before it happened.

Kim

[Lynnwood]

I just lost my 14 Year old GSD to the advancing symptoms of DM.

In the year prior I noticed some hind end weakness nothing major just wobbling when making corners or turning back to chase another dog. I took him in and DM was the diagnosis. At his age we opted for exercise therapy and NSAIDS to counter the strain it was putting on his front end.

He did really well up till the month I had to let him go. Then suddenly as if someone turned off a light , he was ataxic far more often , his personality started to change , didn’t want to go outside , having accidents in the house, stopped playing and engaging the other dogs. I choose to let him go before he had an episode where I found him down and totally unable to rise on his own. Beyond the heart breaking physical compromise I was really shocked in the last month the mental change.

I’m sorry to hear you are going through this. I agree with the poster who said low impact exercise can help particularly swimming to help build up muscles to counter the neuro issues and perhaps find a NSAID you can use to help the front end. Lucas did well on Metacam he was big enough to take the human dose and I got it right from my pharmacy the price was very reasonable.

[bluedapple]

how did you guys diagnose DM?

just wondering how your vet diagnosed it? Did you guys go to your own vet, a neurologist, X-ray, mri?

[mommy_peanut]

Also curious how your vet came to the conclusion of DM?
There are other symptoms/problems that can somewhat mimic DM, but are more treatable.
Regardless it’s never fun when they are not feeling 100%. ((hugs))

[drawstraws]

More his symptoms and the progression and just ruling out other things, since the DM can’t be diagnosed 100% unless a necropsy is done. He’s been on Previcox for the past couple of years due to arthritis in his hips/back legs but this is way different and the Previcox really isn’t helping much any longer. We’ve taken him off the Previcox and started Prednisone so anything that’s more ortho-related should hopefully be helped with that. He’s also been on fish oil and I’ve just added Vitamins B, C and E.

At his age, if it’s a tumor or something else (IVDD?), I highly doubt I would choose surgery anyway (cost, quality of life etc.), so we’re treating as best we can and will try to keep him comfortable for as long as possible. I’d heard of DM more and more in the past several months so it wasn’t necessarily a shock when the vets brought it up as a possibility, and there’s a facebook group that has provided a ton of useful information. My vets are very good about explaining what they’re doing and why and answering all my questions, plus they try to offer all the options but work with me to balance what’s best for the dog vs. what I can afford (for example, there’s no use spending all my money on diagnostics if it doesn’t leave me anything to pay for treatment, especially if the test results won’t change how we treat anyway. They were really good about that when our 10 year old corgi was diagnosed with IMHA in August). I did think about the aqua therapy, along with chiro or accupuncture - not sure if there are any swim places around me but I’ll look into it.

Thanks everyone!

[Blume_Farm]

Truly the only way to diagnose DM is with a full neuro work up and that involved spinal tap and MRI. Other things such as spinal tumors and inter-vertebral disc disease (IVDD) can look almost identical, even without evidence of pain.

Having said that in my practice a full work up is often not an option due to cost and usually the upward age of the pet. Hence, a presumptive diagnosis can be made based on symptoms, breed and lack of or good response to medical therapy (medications, PT, acupuncture, laser). If the animal is not in pain trying NSAIDs, gabepentin, acupuncture, laser therapy and PT are good places to start. If the animal is in pain then IVDD or tumor should be primary rule out disease and treated either with full work up/ surgery or aggressive above medical therapies listed but with a combo of NSAIDs, gabapentin and tramadol to manage pain.

Sorry for your dog as DM is progressive. It does not however, as listed by a poster above, rapidly cause loss of organ function or respiratory arrest. The disease is slow and insidious over months. Before organ failure or respiratory arrest would happen (meaning the disease has progressed to the brain stem) your pet would have to be a quadriplegic. Things that happen suddenly as described above are more akin to IVDD, stroke, neoplasia. Of course a pet could have DM for a while and be doing well, then suddenly rupture a disc, leading to rapid onset of paralysis.

I had a pug with DM that lived quite well in a cart for a long time until the chronic UTIs due to urinary retention and fecal incontinence became more than I could manage or live with. I bought her cart of Ebay for a fraction of the cost of the main stream super duper nice carts. Worked well for a 15lb dog and was purple so she was stylin’

[drawstraws]

Thanks Blume Farm! I’ll ask about the gabapentin and laser therapy also - that’s something that wasn’t brought up before. But overall it sounds like we’re on the right track for doing what we can for now and seeing what works or doesn’t.

[Beckham03]

There is a blood test for it, runs around $125. I forget where they sent it off to. Our neurologists do this before anymore extensive testing, MRI, etc.

[whitney159]

Recently lost my GSD to DM. In our case it was slow and progressive, and he was obviously not in pain with it. At first it was just a weakness and lack of awareness, more in one rear leg vs the other, and this back legs just didn’t seem to respond like they used to. It just steadily gets worse, they work less, etc. He had fecal incontinence after a while, which we dealt with, then he had trouble emptying his bladder. We put him down last month when he reached the point he couldn’t get up on his own, and I was having to help him empty his bladder and his quality of life clearly was poor. He was happy to the end though and bright and alert and that hurt worst of all. I’m so sorry you are looking that this diagnosis, it’s so hard to watch them go downhill and be powerless to DO anything.

[bluedapple]

X-Ray useful?

[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7908202]
Truly the only way to diagnose DM is with a full neuro work up and that involved spinal tap and MRI. Other things such as spinal tumors and inter-vertebral disc disease (IVDD) can look almost identical, even without evidence of pain.

Having said that in my practice a full work up is often not an option due to cost and usually the upward age of the pet. Hence, a presumptive diagnosis can be made based on symptoms, breed and lack of or good response to medical therapy (medications, PT, acupuncture, laser). If the animal is not in pain trying NSAIDs, gabepentin, acupuncture, laser therapy and PT are good places to start. If the animal is in pain then IVDD or tumor should be primary rule out disease and treated either with full work up/ surgery or aggressive above medical therapies listed but with a combo of NSAIDs, gabapentin and tramadol to manage pain.

Sorry for your dog as DM is progressive. It does not however, as listed by a poster above, rapidly cause loss of organ function or respiratory arrest. The disease is slow and insidious over months. Before organ failure or respiratory arrest would happen (meaning the disease has progressed to the brain stem) your pet would have to be a quadriplegic. Things that happen suddenly as described above are more akin to IVDD, stroke, neoplasia. Of course a pet could have DM for a while and be doing well, then suddenly rupture a disc, leading to rapid onset of paralysis.

I had a pug with DM that lived quite well in a cart for a long time until the chronic UTIs due to urinary retention and fecal incontinence became more than I could manage or live with. I bought her cart of Ebay for a fraction of the cost of the main stream super duper nice carts. Worked well for a 15lb dog and was purple so she was stylin’:)[/QUOTE]

this was really helpful Blume Farm. Is a digital X-Ray useful at all? My neurologist said the only thing he can do to help me is an MRI, but my regular vet suggested an X-ray. DOes anyone ultrasound the back in as a cheaper option than an MRI?

[Blume_Farm]

The blood test referred to above I can only think they are talking about the DNA test that is offered through the OFA registry. It is a test to see who is a carrier and who is most likely to develop the disease. However, there is debate as to how accurate it is to catch all 100% of the DM dogs because there are some dogs that might have developed DM without being positive for the gene. Also, there might be dogs that show to have the gene but die from something else before ever developing DM.

Regarding radiographs; they can be helpful to diagnose IVDD and some neoplastic diseases such as osteosarcoma along the spine. However, many IVDD and neoplasia cases will have normal rads and need MRI to be diagnostic. Veterinary medicine is still in the dark ages diagnostically. In human medicine the MRI and CAT Scan machines are just standard equipment due to the improved imaging they provide. In Vet Med we are like “holy crap, how cool, we have an MRI”!!

I will always remember a case I saw in Vet School to remind myself how limiting rads can be: A relatively nutty woman had this Great Dane that she swore had started to walk a little funny. No one else could see it: not the neurologists, not the orthopedic guys, no one. Took a ton of spinal rads looking for cervical spine disease as that is so common in Great Danes. Rads of entire spine looked normal. Nutty owner lady insisted on a CAT Scan of the dogs entire spine. Low and behold in CAT Scan part of the spine looked like swiss cheese. Lytic holes everywhere. Turns out a foxtail (this was in California) had migrated to the spine and caused discospondylosis! Even the radiologists went back to compare the rads to the CAT Scan images and still the rads looked pretty good. So there you go! Diagnostic information is only as good as what the test is able to show.

edited to add: I have never heard of ultrasound being used to diagnose spinal issues in a small animal…

[bluedapple]

[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7910852]
The blood test referred to above I can only think they are talking about the DNA test that is offered through the OFA registry. It is a test to see who is a carrier and who is most likely to develop the disease. However, there is debate as to how accurate it is to catch all 100% of the DM dogs because there are some dogs that might have developed DM without being positive for the gene. Also, there might be dogs that show to have the gene but die from something else before ever developing DM.

Regarding radiographs; they can be helpful to diagnose IVDD and some neoplastic diseases such as osteosarcoma along the spine. However, many IVDD and neoplasia cases will have normal rads and need MRI to be diagnostic. Veterinary medicine is still in the dark ages diagnostically. In human medicine the MRI and CAT Scan machines are just standard equipment due to the improved imaging they provide. In Vet Med we are like “holy crap, how cool, we have an MRI”!!

I will always remember a case I saw in Vet School to remind myself how limiting rads can be: A relatively nutty woman had this Great Dane that she swore had started to walk a little funny. No one else could see it: not the neurologists, not the orthopedic guys, no one. Took a ton of spinal rads looking for cervical spine disease as that is so common in Great Danes. Rads of entire spine looked normal. Nutty owner lady insisted on a CAT Scan of the dogs entire spine. Low and behold in CAT Scan part of the spine looked like swiss cheese. Lytic holes everywhere. Turns out a foxtail (this was in California) had migrated to the spine and caused discospondylosis! Even the radiologists went back to compare the rads to the CAT Scan images and still the rads looked pretty good. So there you go! Diagnostic information is only as good as what the test is able to show.

edited to add: I have never heard of ultrasound being used to diagnose spinal issues in a small animal…[/QUOTE]

thanks for sharing that, that story is so crazy!!! If you do see an IVDD or osteosarcoma on an MRI are they treatable?

[Blume_Farm]

IVDD can often be resolved, or at least greatly improved with surgery. It depends on how severe, how many discs and how long symptoms have been present.

Osteosarcoma is a final diagnosis. However, certain spinal tumors can be surgical candidates. I would hazard to say actually giving statistics of success would be almost impossible in these cases as so few pet owners can pursue such aggressive therapy. What is routine is human medicine is often a “wow, holy crap, they did what?!?!” in veterinary medicine:)

[Beckham03]

H

[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7910852]
The blood test referred to above I can only think they are talking about the DNA test that is offered through the OFA registry. It is a test to see who is a carrier and who is most likely to develop the disease. However, there is debate as to how accurate it is to catch all 100% of the DM dogs because there are some dogs that might have developed DM without being positive for the gene. Also, there might be dogs that show to have the gene but die from something else before ever developing DM.

Regarding radiographs; they can be helpful to diagnose IVDD and some neoplastic diseases such as osteosarcoma along the spine. However, many IVDD and neoplasia cases will have normal rads and need MRI to be diagnostic. Veterinary medicine is still in the dark ages diagnostically. In human medicine the MRI and CAT Scan machines are just standard equipment due to the improved imaging they provide. In Vet Med we are like “holy crap, how cool, we have an MRI”!!

I will always remember a case I saw in Vet School to remind myself how limiting rads can be: A relatively nutty woman had this Great Dane that she swore had started to walk a little funny. No one else could see it: not the neurologists, not the orthopedic guys, no one. Took a ton of spinal rads looking for cervical spine disease as that is so common in Great Danes. Rads of entire spine looked normal. Nutty owner lady insisted on a CAT Scan of the dogs entire spine. Low and behold in CAT Scan part of the spine looked like swiss cheese. Lytic holes everywhere. Turns out a foxtail (this was in California) had migrated to the spine and caused discospondylosis! Even the radiologists went back to compare the rads to the CAT Scan images and still the rads looked pretty good. So there you go! Diagnostic information is only as good as what the test is able to show.

edited to add: I have never heard of ultrasound being used to diagnose spinal issues in a small animal…[/QUOTE]

It is not through OFA. I would have to ask one of the neurologists. We had to fill out the forms and our Idexx lab would send it out. I now work in radiology.

DM was only considered after a Neuro exam and there were certain things they noted…breed, any pain, symmetry of the weakness/lameness, and other points of a neuro exam. Radiographs are usually not helpful…although we can occaisionally see a disc on a metal screen prior to MRI. CT or MRI would look for something else that would conclude whether or not the dog has DM. Every once in a while we catch an FCE and usually those dogs are showing improvement by the time of the MRI. Most IVDD or spinal tumor dogs show at least some degree of pain. In an older dog, MRI is preferred over CT because of the ability to see the infarcts, etc. we mostly use the CT for rad onc planning, bullae, nasal, and straight forward Dachshund backs.

The only confirmed cases of DM I have seen have been GSD’s and Corgis. Sorry to those on here who have lost dogs to DM. It is very sad.

[springer]

I lost my welsh corgi this year after watching him get less and less mobile during the course of a year or so. It was awful. We tried the wheelchair with him which he COULD use but never wanted to so he would just stand in it and stare at me. He got very depressed finally as he got weaker and had trouble dragging himself around. I probably waited too long to make that dreadful decision but that’s why DM is so heartbreaking. He had a good appetite right up until the very end. UGH. I miss my Tucker very much!

[Blume_Farm]

[QUOTE=Beckham03;7912779]
H

It is not through OFA. I would have to ask one of the neurologists. We had to fill out the forms and our Idexx lab would send it out. I now work in radiology.

DM was only considered after a Neuro exam and there were certain things they noted…breed, any pain, symmetry of the weakness/lameness, and other points of a neuro exam. Radiographs are usually not helpful…although we can occaisionally see a disc on a metal screen prior to MRI. CT or MRI would look for something else that would conclude whether or not the dog has DM. Every once in a while we catch an FCE and usually those dogs are showing improvement by the time of the MRI. Most IVDD or spinal tumor dogs show at least some degree of pain. In an older dog, MRI is preferred over CT because of the ability to see the infarcts, etc. we mostly use the CT for rad onc planning, bullae, nasal, and straight forward Dachshund backs.

The only confirmed cases of DM I have seen have been GSD’s and Corgis. Sorry to those on here who have lost dogs to DM. It is very sad.[/QUOTE]

Interesting. I wonder if the test was submitted through Idexx and they sent off to OFA. Idexx will send off samples to other labs (Cornell, Kansas State, etc) if that lab is specific to that test. This is the only blood test I know of, but I am always happy to learn something new! If you could find out I would much appreciate it.

http://www.offa.org/dnatesting/dm.html

[mommy_peanut]

Blume Farm,

There are other labs/places that do the DM test that have nothing to do with OFA. Just an FYI

[crosscreeksh]

We lost two GSD’s, unrelated to each other and well bred German Imports to DM. One just under 7, one just over. It broke my heart and as much as I love the breed, I can’t take the chance of going through that again. Rotten, heartbreaking disease. The mind is still sharp, but the body doesn’t work. A 100+ pound dog is not easy to manage. OP - wishing you and your dog the best.