Deighton's Royal Diplomat - Shire Stallion

[PerchiePower]

Howdy Yall,

First time poster- not sure if this is even the right place. But here goes…

BACKGROUND:
I bought a weanling Shire colt from a small devoted breeder in NC 4.5 years ago. He was sired by a well known Shire stallion called Deighton’s Royal Diplomat who stands out in Nebraska. Everything’s been peachy keen ever since.

PRESENT:
The other day I had a lady reach out to me on FB asking how my boy was holding up. When I asked what was meant by that, she replied that she too was thinking of breeding to Diplomat but she’d been told that his foals have “problems” and that she should avoid his line all together. She wasnt mean about it or anything but Im guessing she just wanted to do her own market research.

Anyway, I reported that my little (18h) man has been every bit of the dream horse but I am VERY careful not to rush him and am waiting until he is 6 to start him.

QUESTION:
Does anyone out there have any insight to what these problems may be? Anything special to look out for? Giant breeds always require more maintenance but is there anything specific in his line?

Thanks!

[Jumping31]

First of all your little colt sounds beautiful! If you’re looking for more breeding specific answers posting in the breeding forum would be more informative.

If that breeder is a well known and respected breeder with an established business it is highly unlikely they would continue offering a stallion with major genetic flaws so I don’t think it has to do with his genetic makeup. It’s more likely to be about temperament is my guess. Some stallions have reputations for throwing hot or aggressive foals, perhaps Diplomat is one of them. It may be his foals are more difficult to break in or less keen on working. If it is physically related it may just be the foals are prone to some unwanted confirmation, however, again if the breeder is reputable this shouldn’t be the case.

The best answer would be to discuss with the lady again to find out what exactly she meant by “problems”. I’d also try to contact other owners of Diplomat’s prodigy to find out if they’re having any problems or have any idea what it may be. You could just directly contact the breeder but that could just cause unwanted strife and or untruthful responses.

Best of luck to you and your colt!

[RutlandH2O]

Are you aware that the Deighton stud is in Yorkshire, England? I’m assuming Diplomat is registered with The Shire Horse Society in the UK. Is your boy registered with the Society as well? All registered Shires are listed with their registration numbers. You could attempt a pedigree search using the Society’s stud books. The Stallion Approval Scheme has lists of stallions that have been inspected and are approved, deferred or failed. Perhaps you might glean some info from the lists.

I agree with Jumping that you should contact the lady who mentioned the “problems.” The Shire fraternity is extremely focussed on hind ends. The closeness of the horses’ hocks and cannon bones cannot not be overstated and is paramount almost to the exclusion of other conformational attributes or faults.

I don’t agree with the temperament angle. Sure, there can be the odd sharp individual, or one that hasn’t been trained sufficiently. However, in a breed of this size, control is everything, whether in-hand, driven or ridden. There’s only so much strength one can manage to restrain an aggressive or hot Shire. There’s an old saying that when a Shire becomes aggressive and uncontrollable, shoot it.

Good luck with your boy! Care to share any photos?

[Sugarwells]

No help but I woyld love to see a pic of your boy.

[PerchiePower]

Thank you, everyone for your comments. I’ll also try posting this in the “breeding forum” once I find where that is, haha.

From what I understand, Diplomat was imported from England many years ago may well be in his 20s now.

I’ve only seen evidence of his registration in the American Shire Horse Association…which makes one think he didn’t make the cut in the UK ??? Now that you mention it RutlandH20…his hind end is much more goose rumped than those I see across the pond.

But despite his pointy back end, “Dippy” has sired countless foals in the U.S. and is widely known for being a gentle soul, stamping a lot of white on his progeny and passing on his incredible height. (19.3hands)

Follow the link to see an ad for him: http://www.draftsforsale.com/ShowAd/index.php?id=45bd30859febe

Fun Fact: His daughter, Jenson’s Diplomat Tina, was for a short time the worlds tallest horse before she passed away.

Here is an article about her…http://www.enterprisepub.com/news/locally-bred-mare-world-s-tallest-horse/article_d14fe9cd-a6f3-547a-82ae-9f7c55bc4d9e.html

Attachments: One picture is from when he was 5.5 months old and the other from when he was 3. I’m afraid I don’t have anything more recent that shows his build. I’ve included a picture of his dam, Double Tree Kate, under saddle as well for reference.

Kind Regards

[PerchiePower]

Hi guys, Ive tried posting a reply 2x but each time it says “unapproved” and doesn’t show up. What am I doing wrong?

[Posting_Trot]

Wow! I just looked the sire up online, and he’s 19.3 hands! I guess that’s in the normal range for a Shire, but wow. (The sire is also stunning).

Are you going to train your horse to ride?

[chai]

As the proud owner of a Shire gelding, I’m thrilled to meet another Shire owner here. I think it’s odd that the woman called you but didn’t give you specifics on the ‘problems’ she was asking about. I think you are so smart to take your time with your Shire. They are the most wonderful horses - mine is 26 and thankfully still going well. I hope you’ll post pictures!

[findeight]

Ask the lady what she’s talking about and where she got the negative information before you panic. Could be just gossip she wanted to share with you to be mean. It happens,

[luvmyhackney]

Probably just gossip. Any pics of your darling? We love pics of gorgeous horses.

[talkofthetown]

He’s so handsome! I love those big white faces.

May I hijack this for one quick sec? If this needs a separate conversation, I’ll start a new thread…just curious! If I learned this correctly, there’s some rule that if white leg markings go above the knee, that horse is considered a pinto- regardless of actual breed or color. Does that rule not apply if a breed is known for having white above the knee, like a shire or a clydesdale?

[findeight]

Two ways to get to the Sporthorse Breeding Forum both very uncomplicated. Top of page, on left, under the banner look for Home> Forum>Discussion Forums>(then whatever forumyou are on). Click on Discussion Forums, scroll down, that gives you all the discussion forums plus the last post. Just click o what you want, either on the left for the main page or the right to go directly to the last post.

The other way is lower right of page under the cancel/ preview/ post reply boxes. Rectangular box that says Jump to, click the down arrow on right of box fir the drop down list of all Forums, help, Off Topic, archives and such. Click on what you want.

[Alterific]

If you have no problems then enjoy your boy.

As for the stallion or his owner… you only have to dig so far in to the breed to find what you are looking for from other breeders. Opinions may vary but they probably exist for a reason.

[Daystar]

My partner works with working Shire horses (logging). I won’t share gossip regarding some issues, but I can tell you that Diplomat is a very hitchy, very ‘American’ type of Shire. ‘American’ is a misnomer, modern would be better phrasing. A lot of white flash, which he throws, a lot of height, a lot of action. Relatively light boned for his height. All adds up to a style that is great for riding, great for show hitches, and not so great for the old fashioned working draft horse that can PULL (actually, they push but the end result is traction). The ‘goosy’ hind end and light build is part of that.
Most people looking for working draft horses want animals under 17.2, ideally under 17. And weighing as much as possible. My partner’s Shire? 16.3 and almost a ton, old school.

[WildLittleWren]

Just wanted to comment on what a gorgeous Shire you have there! Enjoy him!

[RutlandH2O]

Lovely boy, OP!

I’ve gone through my stud books looking for Diplomat’s listing. Unfortunately, I cannot find him anywhere. He was foaled in 2000, so he should have appeared in the Notified Colt section of the stud book. I checked the Non Breeding Register and the reprinted Non Breeding Register to show a change of ownership - nothing. His pedigree contains many well-known champion and top producing Shires. It would appear that Diplomat went to the States as an unregistered stallion. Two conditions will automatically prevent a Shire stallion from being approved: roan colouring and wall eye.

Goose rump is not unknown in the Shire or the Clyde. That isn’t the main concern of breeders and judges. As I posted earlier, the position of the hind legs, that is, the desire for very closely placed hocks, cannons, and hooves is paramount (the hooves facing forward, not pointing outward). When viewed from the rear, the “ideal” position should resemble an upper case Y (this is MY description of the desired leg placement). The same is true for Clydesdales. The bottom of the Y represents the legs, while the V at the top illustrates the line of the stifles. Conversely, neither the Percheron nor the Suffolk Punch breeders aspire to this stance. Actually, there aren’t many other breeds that do, either. When viewed from the rear, in the majority of horses, the leg position resembles an upper case V, perhaps a bit wider at the base.

There is a saying, in Shire and Clyde circles, that the hind legs should be so close that if the horse dungs on his left hock he’ll knock it off with his right. I have my own suspicions as to why this aberration exists, but that would constitute a hijack of this thread.

talkofthetown: Shires and Clydes are never referred to as pinto, piebald, skewbald, or paint. Their colours, black, bay, brown, grey with white legs and blaze, are described as Sabino, regardless of whether the leg markings are above or below the knee. If I’m not mistaken, there are genes for all of those colour designations. Also, here in the UK, the white leg markings are never referred to as chrome.