I watch almost everyone of his training rides. I’ve missed one or two due to work but I do my best to be at every one and video them as well
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So 2500 is full training.
You are paying 1500 on top of board for two training rides a week, or like almost $200 a ride?? Yeah, for that I would send the horse to a top trainer elsewhere.
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when we took our horse home, the trainer’s wife who kept seeing dollar signs told us point blank we were going to “Ruin a perfectly good horse”… well, we didn’t as horse was wonderfully trained and the envy of many
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That’s a number I threw out from another top barn in the area. My trainer does not offer a full training program that has a horse being ridden every day professionally. And honestly I wouldn’t want that anyway. I don’t pay to NOT ride my own horse. Any pro can get on and ride him. I need to learn to ride him. We don’t do the A circuit, we don’t care about the A circuit. I don’t care if it takes 5 years v 6 months. And like I said, we do great on our own with our flatwork
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$1500 is the price of our training board. Regular board is $1000
I think the issue here is you have a green ottb, and you yourself are not a trainer, and you’ve struggled with confidence, and your default is to lean forward, and he’s now rushing.
You need help. Personally I think you and your horse need further training separate from one another, but at this juncture the tension you feel when working with this trainer is only going to exacerbate your already nervous tendencies, which will make everything worse and more dangerous.
Definitely time to move on.
Anxiety is not a positive place for learning for people or horses.
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I can’t quote very well, but my thought (perhaps different from some of the above) is that if your flatwork is going well, maybe your trainer doesn’t know how to help a green horse learn to jump very well. If she’s a person who finds a distance by holding, she may not have the knowledge to help you. Try to analyze what’s going wrong and work over poles to fix your problems. And look for someone else.
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I can’t quote either! My issues are poles at the moment unfortunately 
he never jumped before so we’ve only done a few crossrails and verticals with him so far.
I would like to second the recommendation to take some lessons at the second barn before making your final decision.
While I agree that you sould like you and your green horse are “stuck” at this place in your progress; don’t jump from the fying pan into the fire without checking the temperature of the fire.
I’d also wonder what an unbiased third party thinks of the dynamic between you and current trainer. Older re-riders can be very, very hard on themselves and very sensitive to criticism. If it’s truly verbal abuse, that’s one thing. But if it’s “Suzie, I’ve told you not to lean forward in the approach! Sit up!” that’s a little different.
If you want to try to preserve the relationship at the old barn, a conversation is definitely in order. A suggested way to start the conversation would be: “Trainer lady, Dobbin and I are making great progress on the flat, but we really seem to be stuck working over poles. I don’t feel like we’re making any progress and I sense you’re getting frustrated too. What can we do to break the cycle and get unstuck?”
She may ask you to give it more time, sometimes with OTTBs is the 50th repetition, not the 20th, that sinks in and you’ll have to decide how much time you’re willing to give it.
Or she may blow you off, not take you seriously, tell you it’s all your fault or something similar, and that means it’s time to pack your tack and get outta there.
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How is the quality of your canter? Can you shorten and lengthen? There are a lot of good pole exercises in 101 Jumping Exercises.
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Would it make sense to send the horse somewhere for a month of training board while you just lesson and see whether the problem is just the trainer period or just the combo of you/green horse/trainer?
Unless this horse is very young or just a couple months off the track, I’m surprised the trainer doesn’t have it further along. Unless the problem is really your nerves, not the horse at all. In which case you owe it to the horse to break the cycle and get your nerves sorted before you do create an issue with him.
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It’s really hard to advise without seeing the situation.
My overall advice would be to stop thinking about jumping for six months. Focus on groundwork and your position and maybe add ground poles after a month.
If you have a persistent posture position problem like tilting forward you need to fix this before you go any further. Maybe you need longe seat lessons, maybe you need to ride in a dressage saddle 
or whatever but if you are tilting forward you can’t progress.
Get some video of you tilting, then lean way way back in the saddle and video that. You need to change your muscle memory. See how correct position feels and looks.
You need to fix this on your own time between lessons. If you keep riding wrong on your own time you can’t fix it in lessons.
Tilting obviously is not riding in correct two point. When you tilt often the leg goes back as the torso hunches forward. In two point, your leg needs to be right under you and your butt out. You might want to practice switching between sitting leaning way back and correct two point.
I expect your coach sees you developing an ingrained posture position problem that is going to be both ineffective and dangerous going forward. Your coach is frustrated because it isn’t improving.
You know what the problem is. You need to figure out how to correct it yourself. You need to do this for yourself no matter what coach you go with.
Us adult returning riders often find we have wierd position things that weren’t a problem when we were loosey goosey kids. Tilting forward into fetal crouch is absolutely one of the things people do when they lose confidence. It’s just that it’s 100% the wrong thing and will get you launched over his shoulder. Typically too tilting forward makes the hands pull back low at exactly the wrong moment, rather than releasing forward towards the crest.
So you need to think past your hurt feelings with one trainer or another. You are an adult and you are in control of your own learning. You need to figure out how to fix this persistent position problem and retrain new muscle memory on your own time.
Us adult reriders typically also take longer to learn a physical skill, and our brains can hear instruction that our bodies cannot process quickly. That’s why you need to practice your position every day. Even if you only walk for a week, practice sitting tall all the time.
It’s a bigger question than what coach to use. It’s about your ability to self correct, not what you are being taught.
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Some people just have a tendency to light a horse up. I’ve seen it a lot with adults and TBs or other sensitive horses where the rider gets grabby and tends to curl forward because of a subconscious desire to hang on. But of course we know this is a good way to get launched if the horse is not tolerant. Rushing is a gentler byproduct.
It sounds like you are doing this on another horse as well. And the horse is rushing poles. If the horse’s canter is fine without poles, and the horse is sound, then this is a problem with your riding, and this trainer sounds frustrated that she can’t get through to you in a way that helps you improve. There is probably another trainer out there that speaks your language.
It is usually helpful to think about what TO DO versus what not to do. Don’t get focused on: don’t lean, don’t grab, don’t get nervous, don’t rush… Do focus on: sit up, sit still, bend and unbend the elbows, sit up, soften the shoulders, sit up, breathe…And remember that you can sit up without sitting deep and driving.
Over poles you do not need to do any jumping with your body. However, some green horses that rush and over jump the poles may want a noticeable release of the hand. Including not grabbing on “landing” even if the front side of the pole was rushed. They anticipate the correction and react rather than look for the right answer, because they never find the release. Another one of your DO actions: give, release. This is something that can be taught through correct training rides but can also be undone quickly until the horse becomes confident and relaxed all the time.
It is the anxiety reaction that may “ruin” your horse if the cause is not eliminated (if it’s you) or the right answer not made apparent (if it’s more him). I say that because that’s not behavior you want to become ingrained. It will then take you much longer to undo it than it’s taking you to figure out what it is in the first place because it will make the horse less confident, more defensive. This is the kind of situation where green on green causes problems. You may have a lot of past experience, but you seem to be facing a problem that’s not in your existing skill set.
It’s not right for your trainer to lash out, but maybe you need to first have a sit down and ask if she has a good plan for a way forward that isn’t just that you need to magically ride this horse better immediately. How can she help you and/or your horse work through this? That said, I don’t think a plan that is going to take you years is the right answer for your partnership with your horse either. Maybe she doesn’t know the answer, and that there would be your #1 reason to move.
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Just want to say, @Xbittersweet, that you sound like a conscientious rider and horse owner and it’s good you’re getting to the bottom of these issues. I also like @McGurk’s advice above to try to test the waters with the new trainer before pulling the plug with the old one, if possible.
Here’s my concern. It’s actually not that your trainer is being rude (even though it does sound like she’s losing her temper)…
My concern is that she’s asking you to do exercises that are above your current skill level. If you are “ruining the horse” by creating a problem while jumping, then WTF is she having you jump? To me, that shows poor judgment by the trainer.
Guess what? If I try to jump my horse 4’6", I’m going to ruin him, because that’s above my skill level. Has nothing to do with lack of confidence or whatever – it’s because I’d be overfaced and unprepared. And that’s what you are right now.
What I’m saying is that your trainer is setting you up to fail right now. THAT, not the assholery, is why I would personally look for a change.
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You’ve received some sound advice above. I’ll mention another suggestion. Have someone video your lessons. Later in the day, take the video from your lesson and focus on the section of the video where your horse is rushing. Compare whatever exercise you are performing when the horse is rushing to the videos of your trainer riding the horse performing the same exercise. If you can watch the videos side by side over and over, studying how your body position, the movement of your hands, etc. differs from your trainers at that those moments when the horse is rushing, it may help you visualize what you are doing and how that contrasts with your trainer. Said another way, you may be able to identify the things you are doing to encourage/cause the rushing alternatively you may be able to visualize how you need to use your body, hands, etc. differently to encourage your horse to remain more relaxed.
And don’t forget most re-riders will/can lose a fair amount of muscle memory/strength. This is why many re-riders are encouraged to consider a schoolmaster if/when they venture into (or back into) horse ownership. The re-rider can work on themselves without having to worry about making a greenie anxious or nervous.
One last thought, which is probably more of a rhetorical question. Trainers often have to raise their voices in lessons and in the schooling area so the student can hear the trainer given the distance the trainer is from the student. It is just the nature of the sport. If the trainer is saying demeaning things or adopting a tone of disdain, that is one thing, but if the trainer is merely raising his/her voice so the student can hear them, that is another thing altogether.
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It just sounds to me like your trainer’s style (heavy on the yelling) doesn’t work for you.
There is a subset of trainers who are, simply, mean. Perhaps they think this makes riders take them seriously, perhaps it’s effective some of the time, perhaps they don’t know a better way to teach. It doesn’t work for me or my learning style. Most people will simply shut down when they are screamed at.
And there is a big difference between a trainer you know, like and trust raising their voice once in a blue moon to get your attention, and a trainer who doesn’t have anything else in their toolbox.
This is supposed to be fun! I don’t find getting yelled at fun and I certainly don’t learn while being constantly scolded. I am sure there is a trainer near you who can work with you and your young horse in a positive, calm way.
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Just out of curiosity, why did you pick this particular current trainer? From watching her rides with your horse, how does he behave differently with her in the saddle? You mentioned (and forgive me if I’m misstating) having this issue with other horses you’ve been riding–is this recent, because you’ve lost confidence jumping your OTTB, or something you dealt with even before becoming a re-rider?
Some trainers are just mean for the sake of being mean and gratifying their egoes. Other trainers do the tantrum-throwing “you’re ruining this horse/can’t ride” act because that’s how they were trained, and genuinely believe this is the way to teach (I’ve met some like that who are otherwise fundamentally decent, wonderful people when not teaching riding). Some trainers become so invested in a horse they’re training they throw a fit if the owner doesn’t ride like they do (and consequently make the rider nervous if they overreact to what they see as a rider error).
Regardless, I would third (fourth) the idea of taking lessons with another trainer. In fact, I would take several, because I have a feeling you’re in such a rough patch with this trainer, any lesson you take anywhere else will be better. I would, after the first few lessons at the other barn, however, sit down with your trainer and talk to her. Say, “I know our lessons together have been frustrating. In an effort to get out of my rut, I’m taking lessons with Trainer B.” If she gets hostile and offended and starts being even more nitpicky and angry, then you know it’s definitely time to go.
The big downside to moving to another barn is going somewhere where you don’t feel the instruction is better and your horse doesn’t flourish. But if you do your homework, hopefully you can guard against that eventuality.
I agree 100% with @173north too, that a trainer raising her voice every now and then (for example, if the rider is doing something unsafe) is normal. Doing it constantly, just like applying leg at 100% intensity when riding makes the rider shut down, angry, or confused.
Finally, I personally wouldn’t worry about the horse not being “far enough along” and agree about going back to basics. The horse certainly isn’t pining to jump bigger fences, comparing notes with his field mates. What is frustrating is having the same lesson over and over again, and things not changing, and if your instructor isn’t trying new strategies to help you both, but only seems to know how to have you try jumping the same types of fences over and over again, I agree it’s time for a change.
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I still can’t quote I’m going to do my best to answer everyone.
I picked this trainer for a few reasons. a good reputation but not a huge A show barn so affordable, a good option to lease, and when I bought my own they have good turnout and care.
The yelling is not every lesson. But when it happens it’s very harsh. It’s not the first time I have considered switching barns honestly. But as we all know breaking up with a trainer is hard and the horse world is so small.
Green was not my ideal horse. But unfortunately budget restraints made green the only real option for me. It was green or heavy on the maintenance and I chose green since a 2nd horse will never be in the budget
The trainer I am thinking of moving to I know very well and love. She was just a decent hike away from my old jobs and made it too difficult to get there. I also have more things now in her area so my life is better situated to where she is. I’m not in a very horsey area so there is not a lot of options of good trainers that are in my budget (I am the only income)
I do think the leaning is a new thing. I don’t remember it being one of my issues before I stopped riding.
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The leaning could also be an “on this horse” thing. I think you owe it to yourself to take some lessons with SOMEONE on a different (non green) horse to see if it’s the combo that’s the problem.
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