Depo/Regumate for Over-Reactive Mare?

[GoForAGallop]

Cross posting this from the Horse Care board, where I got 110+ views but only one response. :lol:

I have a six year old TB mare who doesn’t go into any sort of visible heat. Never particularly interested in geldings, no squirting, etc.

She has the tendency to be very, very reactive over silly things (a branch snapping in the woods, etc), and occasionally just seems uncomfortable in her own skin.

We’ve tried everything: blood panels, a $4k lameness workup, vision tests, full training with a pro for several months, professional saddle fit, ulcer treatment (and maintenance since then), free choice hay, low energy/high fiber diet, etc. Everyone agrees that her occasionally explosiveness is NOT naughtiness, she is genuinely scared/uncomfortable by something.

I’m getting to that “It’s not fun anymore” point, but wanted to try the one last thing that hasn’t been tried: hormones. The vet is coming out this week, and I will of course be discussing the situation with him, but wanted to poll COTH for experience as well.

Does anyone have any success stories for using depo/regumate on mares that aren’t your standard “witchy” mares, but express their discomfort in other ways?

[fordtraktor]

Have you tried magnesium on her? It can help some with horses that are like this – I think this is how a true “magnesium deficiency” presents. I don’t use the supplements, I get Mag Ox from Uckele, much cheaper than a “quieting supplement” and if that’s the issue, it will do the trick. If not, it won’t do anything and you will be out just a little $$ and a month or two.

My horse that sometimes gets mag deficient doesn’t get “quiet” on mag, he just lets me brush him without getting saucy and doesn’t act like butterflies are minions sent specifically by the devil to kill him. Just a thought and not to say you shouldn’t try Regumate, but it is more expensive and dangerous if you haven’t tried this.

[Burgie]

You may want to consider doing an ultrasound of her ovaries in addition to the bloodwork.

I had a mare who had similar issues (though she was also kind of witch-y). An ultrasound of her ovaries revealed one that was larger than the other. Theory being that when ovulating, that ovary became more sensitive and uncomfortable. The ‘twinges’ are what produced the heightened sensitivity and over-reactiveness.

Her blood work came back normal. Depo did not help as it didn’t prevent the heat cycles for her. Regumate was successful.

Hope that helps and good luck to you!

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7780942]
Have you tried magnesium on her? It can help some with horses that are like this – I think this is how a true “magnesium deficiency” presents.

Just a thought and not to say you shouldn’t try Regumate, but it is more expensive and dangerous if you haven’t tried this.[/QUOTE]

I have tried multiple calming supplements for her, she’s on SmartCalm Ultra right now which has tons of Mag and B-vitamins. She is definitely a different horse on the calming supplements, it has reduced her pacing and general anxiety under saddle, but hasn’t reduced the over reactions to what are ultimately mild situations.

It may just be who she is, of course!

[QUOTE=Burgie;7780964]You may want to consider doing an ultrasound of her ovaries in addition to the bloodwork.

Her blood work came back normal. Depo did not help as it didn’t prevent the heat cycles for her. Regumate was successful.

Hope that helps and good luck to you![/QUOTE]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m definitely not opposed to trying Regumate if my vet thinks that is the best first option, but the handling concerns are a pain in a barn full of women.

[fordtraktor]

Bummer, was hoping for the cheaper fix! Good luck with the Regumate, I have seen it help marish behavior before, so it could help if this is “estrus-induced behavior problems” as one of my horses was once diagnosed at VA Tech. :lol:

[TullyMars]

Regumate made my mare a different horse. She was flighty and nervous and like you said uncomfortable in her own skin. Put her on Regumate and she is perfect. Did not really want to go that route, but mare is so much happier with life overall.

[netg]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;7780942]
Have you tried magnesium on her? It can help some with horses that are like this – I think this is how a true “magnesium deficiency” presents. I don’t use the supplements, I get Mag Ox from Uckele, much cheaper than a “quieting supplement” and if that’s the issue, it will do the trick. If not, it won’t do anything and you will be out just a little $$ and a month or two.

My horse that sometimes gets mag deficient doesn’t get “quiet” on mag, he just lets me brush him without getting saucy and doesn’t act like butterflies are minions sent specifically by the devil to kill him. Just a thought and not to say you shouldn’t try Regumate, but it is more expensive and dangerous if you haven’t tried this.[/QUOTE]

I haven’t heard of a mare being like that then showing no heat symptoms and it being related to her cycle, but it’s totally possible that it is. My mare gets flighty and overreactive and spooky prior to ovulation, then has painful heat cycles. We’ve tried other options which are less disruptive to the overall hormone cycle which haven’t helped and are about to start regumate with her. Both repro specialists who have checked her out say everything is fine physically, and she will probably outgrow it in a few years, but for now while she’s preparing to ovulate she stands around with her abs tightened and back lifted like she thinks her insides are going to flip and become her outsides, just miserable. Poor kid. I feel like most “mare in heat” issues are training problems, but if it seems like there’s truly some sort of discomfort it’s our job as their humans to try to help make them comfortable, just like we would with human kids.

My mom’s mare is allergic to alfala (we think) and reacts similarly, where she doesn’t appear to be trying to be naughty, but gives the impression she’s hallucinating. She’s a very low energy horse normally, so for her it’s a very distinct change showing something’s not right.

My TB gelding gets magnesium deficient and could have also been described similarly, too. For some horses just a “calming supplement” won’t do the job - MagRestore is one of the very good magnesium supplements geared toward fixing deficiency, rather than “calming.” I will warn you that when we figured out my gelding was mag deficient, he became MORE explosive because his muscles were loose enough that he could!

[snowedunder]

Your mare and my mare should grab a beer sometime My mare also had the occasional explosions for random reasons like somebody moved a chair outside the ring, you shifted the wrong way, a bird sneezed, etc. We checked all the reprod possibilities and tried her on Regumate which really made little difference. She ended up doing best on a combo of Depo once a month and shots of B-12 in an acupuncture point behind each ear. It reduced that always concerned feeling and just allowed her to focus. She was still a sensitive ride but you didn’t have the worry of her spinning out from under you all the time.

[M_Owen]

My mare is reactive when she is in heat, but does not become witchy at all. She becomes hyper vigilant, like being an alpha hear mare to the extreme. She worries where her friends are and notices EVERYTHING in her environment and escalates into a full on attack of attention deficit. The only typical sign of heat she shows is increased urination, but not the squirting like some do, just increase of normal urination. My mare gets depo every 3-4 weeks starting in February and ending in November. She is on a 3 week rotation during the spring transitional cycles. It makes an enormous difference in her ability to focus on her job and ignore the small things (like say sand hitting the fence when she trots by, or a leaf blowing in front of her).

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=TullyMars;7781295]
Regumate made my mare a different horse. She was flighty and nervous and like you said uncomfortable in her own skin. Put her on Regumate and she is perfect. Did not really want to go that route, but mare is so much happier with life overall.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, this is definitely a last ditch effort with her, but if it’s the thing that makes the difference, I’ll be thrilled.

@netg;7781315

I feel like most “mare in heat” issues are training problems, but if it seems like there’s truly some sort of discomfort it’s our job as their humans to try to help make them comfortable, just like we would with human kids.

Thanks, she has been evaluated by several pros, and everyone agrees that it is not misbehavior. And I’ve spent much $$ making sure it’s not a physical/pain issue somewhere, with hormones being the last unexplored frontier. (Well, we haven’t scanned her brain for loose wires yet. :lol:)

If it were just the spooking, I would just go ahead and assume it is her. But I have had her since she was a baby, and there is something just “off” in recent years. The only way that I can describe it is that she doesn’t seem comfortable in her own skin sometimes.

@snowedunder;7781326

Your mare and my mare should grab a beer sometime My mare also had the occasional explosions for random reasons like somebody moved a chair outside the ring, you shifted the wrong way, a bird sneezed, etc. We checked all the reprod possibilities and tried her on Regumate which really made little difference. She ended up doing best on a combo of Depo once a month and shots of B-12 in an acupuncture point behind each ear. It reduced that always concerned feeling and just allowed her to focus. She was still a sensitive ride but you didn’t have the worry of her spinning out from under you all the time.

Thanks! She will always be sensitive, as a TB mare, but I am just hoping to dial her back a few notches. I think I will start with Regumate at this point, but know that I have depo as a backup.

[Pennywell_Bay]

Is she at home or boarded out? What does she get fed? What is her turn-out situation? Pros have evaluated her, but has anyone evaluated the whole picture? Does she act differently with a different rider?

Those questions being asked, I’ve seen Regumate help some mares as you described, a few just needed a tweaking in their program and to get away from their mothers (not directed at you).

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;7781433]
Is she at home or boarded out? What does she get fed? What is her turn-out situation? Pros have evaluated her, but has anyone evaluated the whole picture? Does she act differently with a different rider?

Those questions being asked, I’ve seen Regumate help some mares as you described, a few just needed a tweaking in their program and to get away from their mothers (not directed at you).[/QUOTE]

I have had her for three years (since she was fresh off the track) and this has been an issue in four different locations, ranging from 24 hour turnout to 12 hour turnout. She has been in current situation for almost a year, where trainer is also the BO. She was with Steuart Pittman for three months (so long enough to get a good feel for her) and they had the same issues. Trust me, many things have been done to try and find a situation that works for her. On the whole, she is happy and healthy, this is not a daily occurrence. But she’s uncomfortable enough in her skin that I want to give this a shot.

[Pennywell_Bay]

GFG-not directed at you at all. I hope you find a good resolution. I’ve seen Regumate and Depo work (as well as changes to the program, again, not at you).

[Lieb_Schon]

Sigh. I feel so sorry for you. My mare lived on Regumate 24-7 with a month long break each year. Only way to get her consistent enough to train and show. I hope it works for you. Mare was 1100 lbs. got initial loading dose of 13cc and maintained on 10cc a day. Advice is to buy a plastic measuring cylinder with spout for less mess. Also had even better success with Altresyn when vet didn’t have the Regumate. Actually seemed more effective.
Good luck!

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;7781379]
Thanks, this is definitely a last ditch effort with her, but if it’s the thing that makes the difference, I’ll be thrilled.

Thanks, she has been evaluated by several pros, and everyone agrees that it is not misbehavior. And I’ve spent much $$ making sure it’s not a physical/pain issue somewhere, with hormones being the last unexplored frontier. (Well, we haven’t scanned her brain for loose wires yet. :lol:)

If it were just the spooking, I would just go ahead and assume it is her. But I have had her since she was a baby, and there is something just “off” in recent years. The only way that I can describe it is that she doesn’t seem comfortable in her own skin sometimes.

Thanks! She will always be sensitive, as a TB mare, but I am just hoping to dial her back a few notches. I think I will start with Regumate at this point, but know that I have depo as a backup.[/QUOTE]

[txhjgirl]

Personally wouldn’t bother with depo as scientific studies have found that it isn’t effective for preventing heat in mares. My mare is a completely different animal on regumate. I currently use IM altrenogest from BET pharm because it is easy to administer and is slightly less expensive than oral regumate. Definitely worth a shot. My mare was not “hormonal” acting, but is significantly less spooky and anxious on the hormones.

[GoForAGallop]

[QUOTE=txhjgirl;7783201]
Personally wouldn’t bother with depo as scientific studies have found that it isn’t effective for preventing heat in mares. My mare is a completely different animal on regumate. I currently use IM altrenogest from BET pharm because it is easy to administer and is slightly less expensive than oral regumate. Definitely worth a shot. My mare was not “hormonal” acting, but is significantly less spooky and anxious on the hormones.[/QUOTE]

Thanks. What are you paying per dose for the IM stuff? And how frequently are you dosing? Just trying to figure out what this may cost me if it needs to be long term. :lol:

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I was using injectable Regumate as well (also really didn’t see a big difference with Depo). We did it once a month but my vet said you can use it daily to once a month depending on your mare (compounded differently). Mine were fine with once a month although one I was considering trying every other week. Cost was similar to oral.

[Valentina_32926]

You did blood work - did you check her thyroid levels?

[TBmares]

Please let me know if the Regumate did the trick for your mare. I have an OTTB fitting the exact description you used, “uncomfortable in her own skin,” many other details I could mention, but basically, she has been treated for ulcers and has careful ulcer-maintenance lifestyle, has had numerous lameness exams and back/SI/ovary ultrasounds, we can’t find anything yet she just doesn’t seem comfortable/happy. We will start Regumate this week as a last resort, but please let me know what you found that worked with your overly-reactive mare. Thanks!

[keatssu]

TBmares, I have one that fits the description who is doing very well on Regumate, WELL worth the money! Mine is good in the winter though, so if your mare isn’t markedly different when she isn’t cycling, then it may not be as dramatically effective.