Deposit before PPE

[PK160]

Good Day,
We recently traveled to a rated show (Lexington, KY) to look at a horse that we are interested in buying (5yr old Oldenburg… big fella at 17.2). We know enough to be dangerous to ourselves but have access to trainers for advice. Everything went well with the tryout and my daughter fell in love with the horse.

The problems started after we decided that we wanted the horse. The seller (who is a broker) required a signed contract with a non-refundable deposit before the PPE could start (only refundable if horse failed drug test not including show drugs) . She stated that X-rays of the legs were done 3 months previously with no issues reported by the vet.

The vet conducted the PPE and all seemed well. Later that night the vet reviewed the previously done X-rays and noticed arthritis in the forward hoofs. This prompted additional X-rays the following day. At this time the vet recommended stopping the show drugs and conducting an additional PPE 5 days later. After the additional X-rays were viewed the arthritis was still there along with some bone chips in one hoof. X-ray of the spine also showed kissing spine.

Two days later the horse was moved to a local stable since the seller was leaving to follow the circuit. The horse was to be kept in the stall with daily hand walking (sellers decision). Three days later the second PPE was conducted along with another drug screening. No lameness was found but the horse was a bit “up” with a loose rear shoe. We decided to make an offer and an agreement was made. When the new contract was sent we requested that it be updated to include the second drug screening as part of the disqualifying factor to cancel the sale. The seller refused to add that to the contract as she said she had no control of the horse at the time. This was a stable that she picked and is supposedly a friend/acquaintance. She also said that we had to pay the stabling fee ($100 per day).

Why does this seem so off to me? We’re already invested into this horse (between exams and deposit $8Kish) and not sure how to go forward.

[Amy3996]

That does seem a bit suspicious to me. It also seems like a lot of potentially problematic findings in a young horse. When you say show drugs, what are you referring to?

[PK160]

Batamine and Robaxan… sorry if spelling is incorrect

[skip99]

You may want to post in the hunter jumper board, but I would not purchase a 5 year old who had those clinical findings and was already receiving banamine and robaxin and the second PPE was after stall rest. The whole situation sounds off to me, and $100/day stabling… Yikes.

[PK160]

Thanks Skip99… I will try posting there. Supposedly those are common drugs used during the show since they spend weeks in a stall without run out/pasture time (according to seller). No clue if daily stall charge is true or not… once again according to seller.

[skip99]

No problem. In some barns that may be common, but when I groomed for a BNT in jumperland the young horses (<8 years old) might have received banamine or bute after a particularly hard day or class, but not everyday. I’ve been “out” of it for a while so my experience may not be super relevant. Good luck which ever way you go!

[vxf111]

I’m not sure why you’re trying to buy a horse with bad films and a seller that is making life difficult.

[PK160]

We were in a contract before any of this came out. Everything went as we expected when we started… but then again we’re not exactly experienced in this. Started this forum not to bash the seller (tried to represent facts and not feelings). Just hoping to learn things to do or not to do in the future.

[vxf111]

I would walk from this horse. The reason you did a PPE is not to buy a problem. You learned this horse has several. Money well spent avoiding this horse. That’s part of how PPEs work. Sometimes they result in you not buying the horse. I’m puzzled that you wanted to keep going after finding multiple serious issues. Why do all these PPEs if you are going to buy the horse notwithstanding? What exactly is the question here?

[PK160]

Unless something crazily unexpected happens we’re pretty sure it’s time to walk away. It’s hard because he showed as such a great prospect with everything you’d want plus a great connection with my daughter. I started this thread hoping for advice on do’s and dont’s when shopping for a new horse… things to look for in contracts and what we should stipulate to protect us as buyers.

[Gardenhorse]

I think we are just confused about why you continued with the second PPE and making an offer after seeing such concerning X-rays on a 5-year old. You seem pretty focused on the drug screening aspect of the contract, but there were a lot of other reasons to walk away from this horse before you even got to the second drug screening. Besides the x-ray findings, a 5-year old should really not need pain killers (banamine) and muscle relaxants (robaxin) to do it’s job.

So, I think the advice is to have a discussion with your trainer and vet before you start the next PPE about what findings should make you stop the PPE and walk away unless the seller is going to make significant concessions on price.

[leesa1]

@PK160

The seller (who is a broker) required a signed contract with a non-refundable deposit before the PPE could start (only refundable if horse failed drug test not including show drugs) . She stated that X-rays of the legs were done 3 months previously with no issues reported by the vet.

This would have been the point where I bailed. Anyone wanting you to sign a contact with a non-refundable deposit before PPE is just trying to get you on the hook before you find the problems. Unfortunately it’ll be a lesson learnt for next time.
There’s no way I’d buy a 5 year old with arthritis, bone chips and kissing spine. Drugs are used to hide soundness problems but you’ve got films showing problems and yet seem focused on the drugs. It’s time to ignore the drugs, they’re no longer relevant and focus on the issues that have been found in a 5 year old horse. It’s not going to hold up to any reasonable work and regardless of the connection with your daughter, she’s going to be left disappointed in the very near future if she can’t ride the horse.

[Equibrit]

Are you crazy ? Either educate yourself or don’t go buying horses. They saw you coming!

[Janet]

@PK160

The seller (who is a broker) required a signed contract with a non-refundable deposit before the PPE could start (only refundable if horse failed drug test not including show drugs) .

This is NOT the standard protocol, and I would not have signed such a contract.

Every time I have put a deposit on a horse, pending PPE, the contract says that the deposit is refundable if the vet determines the horse is unsuitable FOR ANY REASON.

But that is water under the bridge, and the $8K is sunk cost.

I would walk before you dig yourself any deeper on a horse that isn’t suitable.

[beowulf]

OP, sorry you are going through this.

If this is your first time buying a horse and you have a big budget (as in, more than 5k), it is really best you involve a trainer. They know the ins and the outs of the sport horse world, they know where to look, and, they also know when to walk away.

A non refundable deposit prior to PPE is not at all industry standard. A deposit prior to PPE, refundable, is. Many sellers will request a deposit to hold the horse while PPE is scheduled, just to prevent tire kickers… but if the PPE finds anything and the buyer decides to walk, that deposit is and should be refunded…

Don’t sign contracts like that again.

I also would not be buying a (non-raced) horse that is 5 y/o and already showing arthritic changes and a bone chip… A WB that is 5 y/o has done practically nothing in its life to merit those changes honestly.

[fourfillies]

Walk away. Sketchy even for the H/J world. A five year old shouldn’t need those drugs to show. And, xrays sound such that if you needed to resell if your kiddo loses/changes interests resale would be problematic. That will cost you a lot more than $8K.

[vxf111]

I don’t think you should be doing this horse search on your own. Whoever you regularly ride/train/board with should be more actively involved. From what you’ve posted so far you’re not ready to do this alone yet. You need an agent working on your behalf.