Deposit returned after vet check?

[Bay_Toby]

Just got the vet check back on a three year old OTQH gelding. He had one start on the track early this spring and was sent home. The sellers say he was not interested in racing. He has excellent bloodlines for barrel racing and seems to have a pleasant and quiet disposition. My daughter rode him and got along well with him, although he is very green. She put a $1000 deposit on him, to hold until a vet check.

Well, bad news. The X-rays showed “severe arthritic changes” in both hocks. We will have our vet review the x-rays, but this seems like a deal breaker in a young prospect.

In this case, is it appropriate to ask for a refund of the deposit? We are purchasing through a broker and not the owner.

[Scribbler]

@Bay_Toby

Just got the vet check back on a three year old OTQH gelding. He had one start on the track early this spring and was sent home. The sellers say he was not interested in racing. He has excellent bloodlines for barrel racing and seems to have a pleasant and quiet disposition. My daughter rode him and got along well with him, although he is very green. She put a $1000 deposit on him, to hold until a vet check.

Well, bad news. The X-rays showed “severe arthritic changes” in both hocks. We will have our vet review the x-rays, but this seems like a deal breaker in a young prospect.

In this case, is it appropriate to ask for a refund of the deposit? We are purchasing through a broker and not the owner.

I would assume so. But isn’t this the kind of question you should ask in advance? Have you signed a contract?

[endlessclimb]

Depends on the terms of the deposit. In most cases for low-end-priced horses the deposit is non refundable because there are lots of buyers who are willing to go for it sans vet check. If seller turned away that type of buyer, they’re entitled to some compensation

[Bay_Toby]

This is a $10,000 horse, so not crazy high as far as horses go. But a major hit for a 20 year old college student, especially adding the $1000 deposit to the $1100 vet check bill. I’ve been trying to soften the blow by pointing out that she’s $2100 out of pocket to prevent buying a horse that could cost more than that each year to keep sound!

We saw the horse on a Monday, placed the deposit on Wednesday, and the vet check was originally scheduled for the following Monday. The vet canceled this appointment and rescheduled for a week later. She then had an emergency and canceled that appointment. Today was the third attempt at an appointment, so we were hoping for better news.

[endlessclimb]

If the seller held the horse for that long, they are absolutely entitled to compensation, IMO. If I were seller, I’d have put the horse on the market again after the first vet cancel. I’m surprised he was held that long.

[NaturallyHappy]

I’m curious…is he sound now???

[dmveventer]

Jeez I’d be pretty pissed at the vet after all that, I’m surprised the owner accepted such a long waiting period. At this point I don’t think you have anything to lose by asking if the deposit was refundable but I wouldn’t have high hopes for getting that money back.

It’s unfortunate she’s probably out the money but it’s a good lesson for your daughter to get the terms in writing next time. It can be uncomfortable, especially when dealing with horse people who can have a somewhat loose relationship with contracts, but it pays to be a little annoying and clarify these things before handing over any money. I budgeted for 2-3 extensive PPEs in addition to the purchase price when I bought my horse; it’s just the cost of doing business. And as you point out, still way cheaper than supporting a 3 yr old that already has severe arthritis.

[FjordBCRF]

When I bought my gelding in 2020, I put down a percentage of his purchase price to hold him for me, paid the seller to haul him to me, and also paid to put him and his wife up in a B&B since they were arriving on a Thursday and the vet check was Friday. I was pretty set on the horse and as a 3 YO fjord wasn’t super concerned of anything deal breaking coming up on our PPE, and it didn’t. If that all didn’t work out, I was mentally prepared to have lost that money.

The seller and I agreed upfront that if something came up that it wouldn’t work, that money would be his. If I purchased the horse, it would go towards his full sale price (minus the hauling and lodging…that was extra).

Not sure what common practice is, but that’s a long time for the seller to lost out on other buyers without some sort of compensation.

[Bay_Toby]

It was their vet that kept canceling. It was not a great situation for either party to have to wait so long.

[Bay_Toby]

He is 30-45 days out of race training and appears completely sound. We are very surprised by the findings… and glad we did the vet check. I am willing to work with minor issues with a older horse who is doing the job we need him to do. But I don’t think a 3 year old with severe changes is a good candidate for a barrel horse. We will have our vet evaluate the x-rays when his office re-opens on Wednesday, but I don’t have a good feeling.

[NaturallyHappy]

The best of luck to you in resolving this. I’m glad you are getting a second opinion. Was he sound on flexions? I’m not trying to second guess your decision at all…I’m curious.

[dmveventer]

I assume your vet is going to charge you to review the x-rays? If it were me I wouldn’t spend another dime on this horse. If losing the deposit is already a hardship there’s no need to throw good money after bad.

[Lusoluv]

You should have gotten a contract that spelled out the purchase price and deposit arrangement, ie. whether it was refundable upon deal-breaking findings. This would help you and seller in case one of you decided to be “difficult”. If this was all just on a handshake, getting your deposit back or not will depend upon the good nature of the seller. Did you give them a check? Did you list on the memo whether it was a deposit or just gave them $1000? If you didn’t have issues with the PPE, seller could have said the horse was $11k and kept your deposit and asked for $10k. I mean, that wouldn’t be right, but if you have nothing in writing you’re at their mercy. They also could have sold the horse in the interim AND kept your money, etc. In the future do NOT leave yourself open to the mercy of others when $$ is involved.

[2DogsFarm]

Agreeing with those saying if deposit terms were not put in writing, or at the very least, verbally agreed on, you may be out $1K w/o recourse.

Adding a question:
Was your daughter intending on putting this horse into barrel training immediately?
If so, IIWM, I’d pass.
3yo race-trained & already has “severe arthritic changes” is not going to get better used in that discipline right off the mark.
OTOH, if horse was given at least a year - letdown from the track & time to see if hocks fuse or he can be ridden sans spinning & sharp turns w/o pain, then he’d be a Maybe for me.
But I’d keep in mind that he may never be sound enough, or hold up to intended use.

[Calvincrowe]

I’d absolutely politely ask for my deposit back- there’s nothing to lose in asking. It was not your fault the PPE vetting was so delayed. The owners presumably agreed to that delay? The owners now know the horse is worth far less (if anything) at this point. I’m sure you relayed the findings, and if this is their vet (which I’d never use for a PPE but that’s another thread) then I’m sure they will relay the findings if you don’t.

Horse PPEs are expensive but are good insurance.

[Training_Cupid]

In my opinion the seller is entitled to keep the deposit, but perhaps they would be willing to apply it in part or in full to a different horse if they have another one suitable? (Depending on the size of their operation, I’m just speculating they might have a few that aren’t panning out on the track?)

[Janet]

What sort of paperwork went with the deposit?

Usually I have a statement to the effect that it is an offer of $X, with a deposit of $Y, contingent on a vet check, and that if the vet finds anything I don’t like, the deposit is refundable. (signed by both buyer and seller)

But if the seller didn’t sign anything saying that the deposit was refundable if it didn’t pass the vet check, then you basically have to depend on the mercy/ moral integrity of the seller.

[Old_Mac_Donald]

Not sure if you have “fit for purpose” laws in your state. Here in Aus, if the horse was advertised as “barrel prospect” and the vet finds bony changes, you would have good cause to get your deposit back.

If the horse is advertised as “suitable for X”, vet report states “unsuitable for X”, you should be eligible to get your deposit back or take seller to small claims court.

If horse is advertised in “as is” state, or paddock buddy only, then you’d be SOL.

Good luck, and I’d go small claims if I were you, and if your vet says horse is unsound.

[clanter]

@Old_Mac_Donald

“fit for purpose” laws

good point, as there is the Federal law that governs this also

the Consumer Rights Act of 2015 would apply to this equine transaction.

The Act automatically implies a term into the contract that the horse must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and sold as described at the point of sale and subsequent delivery. This term is implied into the contract even if terms such as “sold as seen” are used in the contract or receipt.

Breach of either satisfactory quality, fitness for purpose and sold as described entitles you to a 30 day right to reject the horse and claim additional losses starting from receipt of the horse.

https://www.trowers.com/insights/2022/may/buying-a-horse---what-are-your-consumer-rights

[McGurk]

I agree with @Old_Mac_Donald. If the findings on PPE were mild or inconclusive, but you still decided to not to pursue the sale, I would say you forfeit the deposit. In this case, the PPE findings were that the horse is not serviceably sound for the purpose advertised and intended for; so I think you’re entitled to at least part of the deposit back.

However, what other horsepeople think is reasonable really doesn’t matter. Your only option is to ask if the deposit is refundable or partially refundable and hope for the best.

And yes, in the great scheme of things, $2100 for the deposit and vet check is way, way cheaper than trying to maintain a 3 year old with severe arthritis. You dodged a bullet on this one.