"Depressed" Horse?

[kiwihill3000]

I have a 13 yo gelding. He’s been acting, for lack of better words, depressed. I’m not ready to go down the rabbit hole of diagnostics yet, but would love to hear if anyone has had any similar experiences as me and what they figured out.
It’s been kind of going on for a few months, but recently (past few weeks) I’ve noticed it a lot more. I just chalked it up to the terrible heat we’ve been having. He’s a big dark bay Friesian cross that doesn’t handle the heat well. However, it’s been nice and cool lately, and he hasn’t improved. I tried thinking about anything that may have changed in his life recently, and all the changes that I can think of I would have thought would have made him MORE perky instead of less.

This is how he used to be: a giant goofball, Mr. Personality pretty much all the time. His face has always been super expressive, he’s probably the most expressive horse I’ve known. You can always tell what he’s thinking. He’s always been a more forward ride, but not particularly hot. On the ground he has great ground manners, lovely and soft and in tune to his person, but like I said, expressive and goofy. LOVED learning new things, both on the ground and under saddle. He loved trying to figure out what was being asked of him and as soon as he “got it” and was praised, he would act super proud of himself. Just a generally happy boy.

This is how he has been:
Just kind of generally dull. I haven’t noticed a huge change under saddle. I’d say he’s been a little bit slower and more lowkey lately, but definitely moves off the leg when asked. He’s been a little heavy on his feet and moving a little “clunky” recently, but I think that might have partially been due to his feet being a bit long. He just had them trimmed today, so we’ll see if that helps. On the ground, he has just been dull and disinterested. His face hasn’t been expressive, hasn’t seemed particularly happy and hasn’t really been interested in learning new things. He hasn’t been angry or anything…he’ll go through the motions, but he just kinda seems “meh” about life. He doesn’t pin his ears, fidget, buck, or give me any other clues that I can see. Gosh darn stoic horse insert eye roll here. He also just kinda walks into you on the ground or doesn’t really pay attention to where you are. It’s not like he can’t see you, and he’s not MEAN about it or anything, he just doesn’t seem to particularly care anymore. And this horse used to be super aware and soft on the ground and now I kinda have to pull him around and push him off of me. He used to come meet me when I’d go to catch him, but now he just stands there.

Here’s a timeline of the recent changes in his life and his management:

He’s a super easy keeper, and had gotten a little too fat in his living arrangement for the winter, so he was moved and was being kept with a new pony that also needed to lose some weight (move occurred maybe April?). They were out 24/7 in a dry lot with a run in. He was eating a small amount of alfalfa pellets, Vit E/Se/Mg, probiotics, and Smartflex with a moderate amount of hay spread out through the day. At some point, I changed his supplements to just Vit E/Se, took him off the probiotics because I hadn’t seen a change in him, and switched him to MSM for joints. This was done in a span of a few weeks- no abrupt changes. About 2 weeks ago, it was decided that the living arrangement should change because the pony needed even more of a diet and he was at a good weight and I didn’t want him restricted anymore. He was pretty attached to this pony, so he was definitely upset about leaving her. He’s now in a larger pasture (24/7 with run in) with 2 super low key geldings. He’s getting a little more alfalfa, more hay (pretty much free choice), and has access to some grass. He does bite at them some, but doesn’t go after them really. I think he’s just bored and/or taking his frustrations out on them. He also got front shoes on about 1.5 months ago (previously barefoot). Those are all the changes I can think of. No change in saddle or workload really. He has been getting a little extra time off the past few weeks due to my transitioning schedule. His temperament changes don’t seem to be correlated with any one thing. It started probably mid-way through his time with the pony, before supplement changes and shoes. June maybe? It’s gotten worse recently. I just kind of ignored it for a while, assuming heat. I only really got worried about it recently with the cooler weather we’ve been having.

I expected a bit of a temperament change after the move to the new pasture, because that’s stressful and he loved his pony. But this started way before then (like a few months ago). It did seem to get worse with the move, but hasn’t gotten any better after acclimating with his new buddies. Everything else I feel like he should be feeling better- a little time off, grass, more calories, more interactions with horses (he can play with horses over the fence now), cooler weather, shoes… it doesn’t make sense to me. I’ve palpated every square inch of this horse, and I can’t find any pain. He could just be very good at hiding it I guess? But he’s sound and I can’t find it. I’ve had this horse for 3 years. I don’t think I’m doing anything different.

Do horses get “depressed”? Anyone have any experience with these symptoms?

[Simkie]

That’s a lot of change. I’d consider treating for ulcers.

In horses (and other animals) depression is usually a sign of “I don’t feel well.”

[Marla_100]

I have a sensitive gelding who went into the depths of depression each time his pasturemate was changed or left the boarding farm. He made best friends with almost all horses he was ever with.

I finally agreed that he needed a permanent friend that wouldn’t leave him so I bought a yearling filly who kept him busy the first year with her spoiled, princess diva antics. His full time job was to teach her how to be a regular horse not a diva,
and he was finally happy.

I think your horse is telling you he misses having a good friend.

[kiwihill3000]

@Marla 100

I think your horse is telling you he misses having a good friend.

I think that’s definitely part of it. I’m just confused, because his behavior began prior to the move, when he was with the pony (who he had been super happy with). Hopefully, he won’t have to change pasturemates for a while (provided he stops taking bites out of these two he’s with now)

[4horses]

I definitely get more depressed during extreme heat and my horses are the same way. All normal activities stop and they go hang out in the shade all day long. I get up early in the morning to ride and do my chores from 8-10pm at night. It’s simply too hot to do normal activities. My horses don’t frolic or get frisky during this weather. It’s just yucky outside. I rode this morning for 2.5 hours and felt sick all day from the heat. Not that I actively overheated, but i think it is cumulative. More like heat exhaustion. I come inside and radiate heat.

Slightly cooler may not be cool enough for him.

[wildlifer]

Run blood if you haven’t - my heat intolerant horse (a chestnut Appendix, but big bodied) gets anemic if close attention not paid to diet. He requires a good vitamin supplement or ration balancer if not getting a full serving of complete feed to keep blood levels good. Depressed behavior, easy fatigue, other similar changes are common symptoms.

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@kiwihill3000 , if you checked off the usual things - normal temperature, normal firm poop balls, normal urine output, drinking enough, still eating normally, no lameness/pain… it might be time to consult your vet. A change in temperament and him being NQR, there is something going on. Blood work may be indicated and vet exam might be helpful.

Horses do change as they age and their nutritional and dietary needs can really change significantly, even in just a year. Not saying there is always a medical issue when a horse seems not himself or sad/depressed. But best to rule medical issues out. Personally, I’d stop the supplements for now (except a standard vitamin/mineral supplement if you aren’t feeding a ration balancer). MSM is a great thing for some horses and not so good for others. After removing the MSM after a week to 10 days, if he doesn’t perk up, well, then you’ll know that is not it.

[OneTwoMany]

One of the clinical signs of Lyme disease is lethargy another is ataxia. We are in a high Lyme area and the most common early symptom we see is lethargy. Not sure where you are located, but in our area, that would be my first thought and the test isn’t terribly expensive.

The good news is, Lyme is treatable with a course of antibiotics and, you often see an improvement after only a few days.

[S1969]

My thought was Lyme as well.

[kiwihill3000]

Thanks all! It’s supposed to cool off even more in the next few days (low 70s as opposed to high 90s), so I think I’m going to wait and see if this helps and if not, get some blood drawn to see if he’s missing anything in his diet or has Lyme. A ration balancer would be my first choice of “grain” for him, but he’s at a barn that does the whole “whole grains” and alfalfa pellets thing which has been working well in my opinion, but not if he’s missing out on something! I hadn’t thought about the MSM…

@4LeafCloverFarm , could you tell me more about MSM in the horses that it isn’t good for? I haven’t heard about this! He’s a big guy and we do some jumping so I thought he’d benefit from a little joint support. My research told me to try MSM for a while as a cheaper but effective (usually) alternative to some of the name brand joint supplements. If you have other suggestions I’d love to hear them too.

[Zu_Zu]

most likely due to all the change and prolonged heat
however

I agree with wildlife

I would have blood pulled … it will tell you what… if anything you need to do next ~ IMHO

Jingles & AO for your gelding ~

((hugs)) for his worried and great caretaker owner !

[2DogsFarm]

IMHO, worth the price of a vet call & blood work to rule out a medical issue.

Since the change in behavior began when he still had his pony companion, I’d not be so willing to call it depression w/o making certain there was no physical basis.

Some horses are stoic, others Sarah Bernhardts.

Hope you get things figured out & get your goofball back :encouragement:

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@kiwihill3000

@4LeafCloverFarm , could you tell me more about MSM in the horses that it isn’t good for? I haven’t heard about this! He’s a big guy and we do some jumping so I thought he’d benefit from a little joint support. My research told me to try MSM for a while as a cheaper but effective (usually) alternative to some of the name brand joint supplements. If you have other suggestions I’d love to hear them too.

Not specifically MSM, just that not all horses tolerate all supplements equally. Some horses can’t have Rice Bran/Oil, some don’t fair well on fat supplements, some have issues with herbal type supplements - from runny poops to becoming a wild child to lethargy and not wanting to eat. Just like humans - not all humans can use just any dietary supplement. Not an allergy per say, but it just doesn’t sit right with them for whatever reason.

So when diagnosing something in my horses, I always remove whatever I’ve added/changed to determine if that was the cause or contributing factor. That’s all I meant.

But you might find this article interesting (and there are others that are similar - just google “MSM causes lethargy in horse”). And so I don’t get blasted - MSM is a great supplement and I’m not suggesting ALL horses have a reaction to it! Not all humans can tolerate ice cream, but that doesn’t make ice cream bad.

https://www.equisearch.com/HorseJournal/msm-and-performance-horses

[candyappy]

I think he needs a thorough vet check. This has been going on for MONTHS now. When a horse changes that drastically you need to stop messing around. Just my thinking if it was my horse.

[J-Lu]

I also suggest that he needs a vet exam and I would pull blood for a CBC/chem screen. “Depression” for more than a few days to a week = a health issue. They aren’t feeling well. This could be unrelated to the move, and the stress of the move exacerbated this problem. There is something physical going on with your horse, IMO.

[RichardX]

Hey @kiwihill3000 . Your words piqued my interest (because they mirrored my own a while back):

“On the ground, he has just been dull and disinterested. His face hasn’t been expressive, hasn’t seemed particularly happy and hasn’t really been interested in learning new things. He hasn’t been angry or anything…he’ll go through the motions, but he just kinda seems “meh” about life. He doesn’t pin his ears, fidget, buck, or give me any other clues that I can see. Gosh darn stoic horse insert eye roll here. He also just kinda walks into you on the ground or doesn’t really pay attention to where you are. It’s not like he can’t see you, and he’s not MEAN about it or anything, he just doesn’t seem to particularly care anymore.”

This was an accurate description of my mare before she was treated for EPM 4 years ago, so I’ll paste here a long comment I posted on another thread where a member was wondering whether his / her horse had EPM or Lyme disease. No need to read it all. But points (4) and (7) below might perk up your ears. If so, read the rest - especially (5) with some simple checks you can do yourself. If you think EPM is a possibility, ask your vet to do a neuro exam. No need for a spinal tap or blood work - unless you and your vet think so.

I had a horse with EPM (almost certain) 3 years ago. A few things about EPM:

1. I’ve never heard of EPM causing hair loss or uneven shedding, but that doesn’t mean much.
2. My TWH showed ataxia (lack of coordination) in hind legs. That was the final give-away to call out my vet on an emergency basis.
3. She was 4-1/2 years old, and seemed to stop developing - especially glutes and top line.
4. I had had the impression - for 6 months - that something was “wrong” with her. She did all I asked her to do, learned what I taught her, and minded me well. But with every horse I had ever bonded with before, as I told my vet, I could peg them within a week or so as: lazy, feisty, happy, sassy, wild, stubborn, irritable, sensitive… whatever. With my mare, I couldn’t peg her personality - at all. It was like nobody was home. My vet told me, “that’s a symptom of EPM. It depresses the horse’s entire CNS.”
5. The only way to be 100% sure of EPM is to perform a spinal tap. Expensive and risky. But there’s an easier “quick check”. Give her twice daily doses of about 10 cc’s of oral (not IM) banamine, to alleviate pressure and inflammation on the brain and spinal cord. If you see improvement in under a week, it could be either Lyme OR EPM (I think). But a vet should be able to diagnoise EPM with: 1) tail pull tests, 2) circle pulls, 3) palpitation and limb manipulation, 4) putting a hand near her “naughty parts” to see if she “tucks under” in reaction, as EPM often causes lack of sensation in the hind quarters, and 5) a “fake fly” test: take a stiff piece of straw and poke her all over, especially hindquarters, to see if the skin flinches as it normally would when a fly lands on her.
6. There’s good news on EPM treatment: The product “Marquis” works wonders. A one month supply is around $800 (I did it for 2 months with my mare). Once daily oral administration, along with banamine, in the beginning.
7. With my TWH mare, I was overseas when she was diagnosed. I returned a week later, after my vet (and friends) had started her on Marquis and Banamine. When I got home (a week later), she was a completely different horse: sassy, bratty, vocal, spoiled, etc. I almost cried. The vet told me that was the effect of the banamine, as the Marquis was only beginning to kill the protozoa that were attacking her.
8. In the beginning, my vet gave her a neurological grade of 3 (0 is perfectly healthy, 5 is unable to stand or walk). She said to expect a “1-grade” improvement with the Marquis. After 2 months, my vet said she was a neurological grade 0 to 1.
9. Forgot to mention: if it’s EPM, she needs about 4,000 IU of Vitamin E daily (no selenium) in the beginning of treatment. Then, as further care and prophylaxis, 2,000 IU per day is good.
10. A friend of mine at my stable had a horse diagnosed with EPM several years earlier. He opted for another treatment: Karbo Combo. KC is a great product for overall horse health, including gut / colic, blood diseases, and even parasites. But his horse would never canter again. On the other hand, my TWH mare went on to become a not-too-shabby barrel racer, jumper, pole bender, and cow sorter as well as having a lovely canter, gallop, and running walk.

That’s my experience with EPM. I have no experience with Lyme disease. Maybe other forum members can shed light there.

Get your vet to do a neuro exam! Good luck!

[RichardX]

Forgot to mention, @kiwihill3000 : Most horses (20% to 80%, depending on region) in the U.S. carry the EPM protozoa in their blood,. But actual infection with it is relatively rare - AND IS USUALLY BROUGHT ON BY STRESSFUL EVENTS AND TRAUMA - which weakens the horse’s immune system, making him / her more vulnerable to infection. Sounds like your horse has been through a fair amount of stressful situations lately, eh?

[findeight]

The horse is dull because he does not feel well. I wouldn’t throw supplements at that very good possibility, spend the money on a vet visit and blood panel. Look for EPM and Lyme.

[LookmaNohands]

He doesn’t feel well. I would have a vet look at him and do some blood work.