Near Sudbury. There are alot of breeding facilities and some major barns like Foothills by Cathy Inch and Northern Legacy, a lot of jumping facilities, and i know there are a few in Thunder bay and New liskerd who want to to do shows its just too expensive to go to shows in the toronto area. So they either compete in fair shows only or not show at all, thats where the show barn idea came into play.
More stalls. A show facility is very different than a boarding barn.
I would not worry about tack lockers as people want the tack near their horses so will use a tack stall. Same goes for feed and grain. They do not want a common area for feed but a feed stall near their horses. I do not think you can get away with less than 100 stalls to have any size of a show. As already mentioned more wash areas. Lots of power outlets in the aisles, lots of taps for water. Smaller doors for bringing horses into the barn in the winter without freezing the barn by opening a 16 ft door. Man doors for the same reason. More parking area and hookups. Can never have enough.
Washrooms with showers for the exhibitors. A concession/display area for vendors. An area for somebody to run a food booth.
For a show facility I would want good trailer parking/turn around area. More toilets. (Trust me on that one.) Where will concessions be set up? How will you manage horse traffic in and out of the arena while keeping it safe for them and spectators?
Your set up would be good enough for full-time boarders, but as a dedicated show facility, not.
You built a boarding facility. What show would only need 24 stalls?
http://www.agricenter.org/arenalayout.html. That’s more of the layout of a show facility. Barns are separate from the arenas and there are a few hundred of them.
first off, its a warm up arena not the show arena. there are seperate indoor and out door arenas behind the barn. And it is not just one barn, though the layout doesn’t show it as it was just there to see if the placement would work, there will be two barns the main one is the one with the arena, the second barn is not going to have an indoor warm up ring, it will be an outdoor warm up ring. and two shedrows of 8 stalls.
updated barn set up and property set up is coming, when i have some more free time around my barn work and my two part time jobs.
Thank you for all the advice
[QUOTE=kizzyandana;7323914]
first off, its a warm up arena not the show arena. there are seperate indoor and out door arenas behind the barn. And it is not just one barn, though the layout doesn’t show it as it was just there to see if the placement would work, there will be two barns the main one is the one with the arena, the second barn is not going to have an indoor warm up ring, it will be an outdoor warm up ring. and two shedrows of 8 stalls.[/QUOTE]
That still doesn’t sound like enough stabling to be viable as a show facility.
[QUOTE=Ghazzu;7324542]
That still doesn’t sound like enough stabling to be viable as a show facility.[/QUOTE]
The area she’s talking about would have difficulty drawing the kind of #'s you guys are used to with shows – IMHO, there just isn’t a viable business plan for a show only facility that far north in Ontario (and I’m even further north). But good luck to OP if she thinks she can make a go of it.
I have no help in advising if a show facility would be viable in your neck of the woods, or if it is what size crowd it would draw. However, below is a link to my favorite show grounds here in NC.
Legend on the map is:
#! large coliseum arena with seating, show office and cafeteria. The arena is large enough to set up two dressage arenas. Behind the stadium seating is a large pedestrian walk way where shops set up their booths during the show.
#5 is a covered warm up arena. It has a covered breezeway connecting it to the coliseum.
#16 is another covered riding arena that is infrequently used (at least during dressage shows)
#3,4,6 are all arenas that can be used for warm up or sometimes they will set up additional dressage show courts depending on how large the show is.
#15s are both large dressage areas that can fit two dressage courts side by side with a small warm up area in front.
#17 there are five lunging pens.
#7,8,9,10,12,13 are all the barns. I am not sure how many horses each barn houses but probably 150-200 horses in each one. Each set of barns are connected by a central area that houses bathrooms (with showers) and wash racks for the horses.
The set up is circular with plenty of parking and RV hook-up on the outer rim of the facility. Everyone that shows here absolutely loves it. If I was in the process of building a true show facility I would seriously look at this layout.
You still show tack and feed rooms. Is there a reason for putting these in? They are wasted space in a show facility. There are only large doors. This will make the barn very cold in the winter. Especially since this is not the main barn and people and horses will need to move in and out continually.
why do you want a warm up arena in a barn that houses the show horses? It is a dust maintenance nightmare, it is too small for a warm up arena, if a horse is screaming in the stalls it will be bothersome for folks warming up, if trainers are working with riders in the warm up arena it will interfere with barn conversations, etc. Just seems like a bad idea.
You should have the show barns separate from any warm up arenas.
There also needs to be housing for 100s of horses. In your new design there is only something like 28 stalls. Even with 8 stall shedrow barns and another 28 stall barn that is not nearly enough stalls.
The cost of building a true show facility must be in the millions…all the infrastructure, arenas with good footing, water, electric, sound systems, parking, stalls, bathrooms, RV hookups, etc. To cover such business overhead (and justify a loan) you need to be able to support some much bigger shows. Now if you just want a small boarding like facility that offers schooling shows, small unrated shows, etc than maybe a layout like this could work. But the cost of even building a small facility like this, I can’t see where you are going to generate the income to pay overhead.
Unless of course you are independently wealthy and not going to a bank for a loan:)
I am in northern Ontario. There are maybe about 40 to 50 horses in our area that compete every year, I am not saying that is all I want to have at the facility. But it is a good number for a brand new business. Another barn might be added in the future but as an opening business i would think two is fine. However room for improvement is always wanted. Thank you for your information i will put it to good use:D
OK, but think about the numbers and feasibility financially speaking about such a facility:
land cost ?
permits?
ground preparation?
barn/ indoor arena cost 500K
footing for indoor arena only 50K
plumbing 20K
electrical at least 50K
bathroom buildout ?
office build out?
You are EASILY at $1MIL for JUST the drawing you made not even including a gazillion incidental costs to building such a project.
That does not include once a business is going insurance, labor, taxes, electric bill, phone bill, water bill, maintenance, etc.
So conservatively speaking if you have a 15 year business loan for about $1M your monthly overhead JUST for the loan is $12K + all the daily expenses mentioned above for running the business.
If you had 30 horses 30 weekends a year at $125 for 3-day stall fee (pretending you hold a 3-day show every other weekend throughout the year) that would bring in $7,500/ month. Now you have to generate enough show entry fees to cover ALL the remainder of costs (remainder of business loan + running expenses). And that loan would really only cover the costs of what you have in your picture…NOT additional outdoor or covered arenas, additional barns, road/ parking lot contraction, RV hook up, landscaping, etc. That would cost you even more.
To be honest, and I never want to quash a dream, unless someone had A LOT of personal money to pour into such a thing I just don’t see how you could sell the business plan to a bank for a loan. Would love to be proven wrong:)
I own and run my own business and I can tell you the cost of running a business is always more than you think…and I am very creative with saving costs and getting things done. Having written a business plan (almost 25 pages) to get all my loans for my business you need to be able to write a very solid financial proposal. And that was in good financial times when banks were literally giving money away!!!
I am another person that thinks you should keep the barn and arena separate. Here is a layout design for a barn that has 36 stalls and you would build the arena outside of this.
http://i.imgur.com/HW4Jk4S.jpg
You could also remove the lounge, tack room or w/e and add more stalls with this plan.
You can draw pictures on paper but the reality is that you need to consult with who may be building the barn to find out about the specs - what kind of trusses and support for the roof span to predetermine what space you will actually be working with. And think about where your plumbing goes, wash stalls on one end and restrooms on the other is more expensive. And outside plumbing runs can freeze. You’re in Canada right.
I’d put your arena in it’s own space, with attached access, I also do not like arena dust near stabling - and do a barn with interior wash stalls and public room.
Ditto the door access and the weather. You need walk doors also.
Another Thing to consider with the costs that you brought up, what i have in mind for the place is not just a show rental facility, there fore there doesn’t have to be a show in the place all the time, it is also a public rental place for weddings, parties etc(outdoor mostly unless i get flooring to cover the indoor arena dirt which is what my school did-they just used plywood) It is also being used for seasonal activities so a small tourist attraction- so a rate of pay for a family to be on property, like Rounds Ranch in Elmsvile has mazes and other seasonal events around their horse business. A mist maze in the summer-Rounds Ranch
Example- for the entire month of october there will be Haunted mazes,winter -sleigh rides and snow shoeing. Spring- easter hunts etc. There will also be yearly passes for riders looking for an arena to ride in. With dated rides- my school also did this at reach Huron.
So the first year part of my plan is the building of the show facility. And i have already gotten a quote from a canadian barn builder for two barns to be built the same way.
Why not put the warm up arena between or beside the two show arenas?
Also, you will need to host MAJOR shows with sponsors, like FEI scale if you want to make back the money you are going to put into this. 100 entries will make you diddly squat when you have to pay staff and expenses to run a show on a facility this size.
