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Designing an Indoor Riding Arena in northern NY -- questions re insulation, windows, water

Around The Farm
#1

I am building an indoor arena this summer in Potsdam, NY (near Canadian border). I have read many COTH exchanges on indoor arenas and have a few more questions. Our two horses and farm are my retirement dream but since my parents were totally not into indulging my horse fancies as a child, I am a inexperienced and a relatively new rider. No jumping. The plan is to build a 70 x 140 metal arena with wooden trusses. I think I will go 18 feet high. It is near my 2 stall barn so I don’t need bathroom or stalls or tack room in arena. But I figure future owner could add a couple of stalls in arena. The location is not ideal but it is mostly flat and the main upslope is to the west. I have an excellent drainage/excavator contractor who works on building roads for a living and does private excavation as a side business.

My questions. Should I insulate roof? sides? If so with what. I plan on installing 2 equipment doors (14high x 16) and 2 horse/rider doors (12high x 10). I read that sliding doors are difficult in winter. What is best bottom track. I don’t like the idea of overhead doors . Are single or double doors best. As for Horse/Rider doors, same question about bottom track. Is 10 foot wide OK? I will have 36 inch translucent panels under eaves. Are windows still a good idea. Potsdam gets hot in summer, but it isn’t the south. Do windows distract the horses? Is it an expense decision or genuinely good to have windows? Finally, on rider guards, I read that you should have swinging door guards also. Can simple chains work across a smaller opening like horse/rider doors. Thanks!

#2

I greatly prefer windows in indoor arenas, regardless of climate, so that they have more natural light and don’t feel so stuffy and claustrophobic. A spooky/easily distracted horse is going to find something to distract it regardless, I wouldn’t use this possibility as a consideration.

Double doors are, of course, infinitely easier to slide open and closed. If your doors are placed well so that snow and ice don’t build up at the bottom, or you are diligent about keep them clear, they should be fine to use in winter. I don’t know what you mean by “what is best bottom track.” I’m sure the builder will have appropriate hardware for the doors chosen.

#3

Thanks. I haven’t ridden in an arena with windows, but they sure look nice. I guess I will figure out how many I can afford. The reason I asked about the bottom tracks on doors was that in another post in 2015, a person had trouble with frost heaving under the doors and couldn’t use the arena for a month. In northern NY we have snow, ice, and frost heaving so I guess I will discuss with builder.

#4

Regarding doors, I know they’re common, but after the experience I had with big sliding doors at my boarding barn this winter, I would suggest reconsidering the overhead doors. We had terrible issues with snow drifting around the slides, which needed to be dug out in order to open the doors. If you got a freeze/melt cycle, the snow around the doors would turn to ice, and needed to be knocked loose (usually with a pretty swift thump to the bottom of the door) before it would move. There were several days that I was concerned that I would NOT be able to get my pasture-boarded horse in/out of the barn.

Barn I was at in previous winters had overhead doors with electric openers. Because the tracks were installed indoors, there was no danger of snow drifting & blocking the track/door. We did occasionally run into the issue of the bottom gasket freezing to the ground, but that was easily remedied by using a shovel under the door to help break it free. Also, the big overhead doors were only used for getting equipment (tractors, gators, etc) in/out. People and horses used “people doors” (aka standard human-sized entrance doors) to get in and out - much easier to keep those clear and available, though sometimes a bit of an adventure until the new horses got used to it.

Looking at insulation, again, comparing current barn & previous barn… Current barn has some insulation on walls (the sort that basically looks like bubble wrap), but there are definitely gaps. Also open rafters above. There is a large propane forced-air heater available for when it’s REALLY cold, which helps take the edge off. Even during our polar vortex this year, the arena rarely fell below 15 degrees F or so. Previous barn had a fully insulated indoor (I have no clue what R Value - the insulation was covered with paneling, as was the ceiling). There were propane heaters in this arena as well, but I’m not sure they were EVER actually used, and the arena almost never dropped below 35-40 degrees. It did, however, get REALLY damp (the walls would actually sweat). For me, I wouldn’t have wanted the arena to be quite so warm if I had to take my horse outside to get back to the barn and/or untack in an unheated barn. I found the current barn’s arena fine to work for all but the worst of this past winter - required more layers, but I think it was better for both me and my horse.

#5

At least some insulation will help protect the building from becoming an oven in the summer.

As for windows - as many as you can afford and have at least some of them be open-able. Ventilation makes a huge difference to the comfort of an indoor even when it’s cold. And on a rainy day in the summer - very nice to be able to let some breeze in without opening a huge door.

those translucent panels are nice but they don’t really provide that much light.

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#6

In my new indoor I am building, I have 6 ft high, 32 ft wide double sliding “windows” on the long sides that can be opened wide in summer and closed in winter. They weren’t particularly expensive to add. They are pretty much sliding doors that are only 6’ and placed at window height. I wanted a lot of ventilation because I only have the one space to put an arena, so no outdoor.

I didn’t insulate the sides but you do want to insulate the roof so it doesn’t rain on you. there is a 1" insulation that does that.

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#7

I have a low budget 60 X 144’ indoor in western ma. There’s one 2’ high fiberglas strip around the top of the walls which lets in some light, but basically, I ride in there by myself so don’t really need more light. I’m retired now so ride during the day so almost never turn on the overhead lights, and windows weren’t a high priority for me so I only put one in. If I want more light or ventilation I can open the end doors.

We make our own hay and store it at one end of the indoor, so needed two big doors at either end to get the hay wagons in. We also have another smaller barn we use for hay and it has 2 big sliding doors on the ends, too. So four double sliding doors and another single one on the side of the indoor. The single one opens out into a covered shed which connects to the stalls though, so it’s low maintenance.

All the doors are hung from tracks, but there’s nothing on the bottom. We have to keep the bottoms dug out so when the ground heaves we won’t have to chip the frozen ground out with a pickaxe, although some of the doors have a bigger space underneath so don’t need to be dug out. We do have to tie the sliding doors on both ends though, so the wind won’t bang them around.

Last winter water ran under one of the doors I hadn’t dug out enough and froze it shut, but I just waited for a warmer day and then poured salt on the ice, and then once I got the door open dug out underneath it more.

I only get enough condensation to get rained on for about an hour when the sun hits the metal roof, and only get that under certain temperature conditions, so if it’s dripping I just wait until it’s done or ride between the drips. When I was riding before work I never had that problem. :slight_smile:

#8

I would say that if you put windows in put them high enough so that you can see out when on top of your horse. If they are lower the horse will look out while being ridden but you can’t see what they are looking or spooking at.

I have two large sliding doors at either end of the arena. I keep them open three seasons and closed for the winter. One of them takes quite a bit of strength to move as there is a slight warp part way up. The other door opens and closes very easily. I have one window at the front near my mounting block, high enough so I can see out while on the horse. This way I can look if I think someone drove down my drive.

Light panels are great but if you are riding while the sun is setting it will blind you if you look in that direction.

I wouldn’t insulate the walls but sometimes wish the roof was insulated as the rain can sound quite loud.

I would never heat an arena. If the sun is out in winter it is quite comfortable in there. If your horses are turned out there would be too much contrast in temperature and I am sure they would get hot when worked.

Good luck

#9

I have to agree with this on the topic of insulation.
Do insulate the roof to prevent the condensation issue and to help reduce the horrible noise of any rain.

Most indoors around here do not have actual windows. They have those translucent panels. They give plenty of light during the day.

#10

Consider the new kinds of spray insulation.
Is what most anyone uses here any more, residential and commercial.
The price has come down considerably, partly because it takes a fraction of the labor needed to install other insulation.

Translucent panels at the top or any other place are wonderful.
Most here with those only use lights at night.

Any kind of wall openings, big doors or windows that open, sure helps where it is humid or very hot in the summers.
One local cutting trainer has solid walls to 8’ and then 5’ slider walls that open as windows.
He loves it when it is hot indoors, which is much of the year here.

How wonderful you are getting to build what you want.
That is so much fun, along with the aggravation and second thoughts once built of what you may have wanted different.
That is part of it, learning as you go.
No matter if it is your first or one of many barns, you can always find ways to improve it.
Maybe we will get to see pictures?

1 Like
#11

My friend has ginormous double doors (uses indoor to pull the combine into, etc. sometimes). They added a concrete pad just under the doors because that way they could install a ring system to lock them in the middle to the floor–after some crazy storm sucked them out and bent them. They lock on either side at the ends, in the middle, and at the bottom middle. No more problems.

Pay attention to where snow will naturally blow away from buildings and put the door on that side if you can.

#12

op here is an indoor not really far from you…it 80 by 200…scroll down to Gallery of photos to see the arena

here is the real estate listing for the property, it is in South Wales NY

https://www.chronofhorse.com/directo…y/#prettyPhoto[directories_309192]/1/

#13

Thank you everyone for offering advice! Wonderful. I am so excited. So, based on this advice, I will insulate roof and will think some more about the walls. I do NOT plan to add any heater, but we do get cold and damp in winter and hot in summer, so… No insulation in the walls would be cheaper, but the examples given were of arenas that were heated. (On April 9th we had almost 2 inches of snow!).

I will also talk to builder about the equipment door. We probably should go with an overhead door on the North long edge of the building because it is into the wind and will get snow on the base just like our barn. (we have almost no choice as to location of arena). On the South long side, I will stick with a double sliding door just to have options if one has problems.
On the West side which will be the main entry for us with horses, I plan to do a horse/rider single sliding door. I think it is protected enough to not have to worry about the ice and frost heaves.

As for windows, I love the idea of placing them high enough to see out on horseback. I have only ridden in arena without windows so it never occurred to me. Again will have to think about size because we need to open some of them. Since my horse (the taller one) is 16 hands, it is fortunate that I am tall so I can reach the window to open from the ground. I plan on 13 windows, 4 on each long side and 2 on the gable end with rider door and 3 on the doorless gable end. And I will still go with translucent panels. I have ridden in an arena where glare was a problem, but I think that can be handled by the type of panels we buy. I don’t think I need a really big sliding window because we do have a nice outdoor arena.

Since the arena will not be heated and pipes will freeze, I was planning on just putting a yard hydrant in one of the corners of the arena and using sprinklers. Unless someone has a better idea.

The real estate listing in South Wales is several hours south of us and frankly a lot fancier than we are building. But gorgeous.

Thanks again.

#14

6 months after my last post and the metal roof is about to go on my 72 X 144 arena and the contractors asked if I wanted a layer under the roof to ward against condensation. The engineer who developed the plans did not think necessary and several local arenas don’t have any layer. BUT, several people who responded to my earlier post like insulation for anti-condensation and less heat in summer and less rain noise. After a lot of reading online it seems that the single radiant barrier insulation works well but is it worth the money. I would love additional focused opinions. Thanks!

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#15

Ask them about spray-on closed cell insulation?
That is what everyone that insulates here uses today.
It also helps with noise reduction.
You can add that later, don’t has to be put on right now.

#16

I would suggest you locate barns in your area that have arenas with and without roof insulation and ask what they like and dislike about their choice. What works in one area of the country, might not be ideal for another area.

If your engineer specializes in designing equine facilities, then you might want to give a lot of weight to his input. If he designs very few equine facilities, you might want to get plenty of second opinions.

We are also in zone 2, but much further south than you. I couldn’t imagine NOT having an insulation barrier on the metal roof of our indoor. It does help to lessen the noise of the rain. And it does help to lessen the condensation.

#17

I am in northern Michigan, so climate probably very similar to yours. I would definitely go for the insulation in the roof. It was actually required by our building code here. I don’t remember exactly what it is, but it is a rigid sheet, 1/2 thick maybe, with a foil barrier on one side (the side that faces toward the ground). It is also flame retardant, as code required.

It cuts down the noise of rain on the metal roof a lot. I’ve never had a condensation problem, but also choose not to heat my arena. It also keeps things cooler in the summer.

My side walls are not insulated. Arena and barn both were designed with very nice eaves ventilation. No stale air but also no draft, even with a strong wind. We are plenty windy at times being on a hill not far from Lake Michigan.

I only saw this post today, so this suggestion may be too late. I’m not sure exactly where in your construction you are, but I did not use translucent wall panels or windows in my wall. Per suggestion of the local lumber yard, the top 2 feet of my walls, so just below the eaves, are a clear panel. The material is apparently what is used in race car windshields but it has the same pattern of undulations, for lack of a better description, that the siding steel has. I absolutely love it! Everybody that comes into my arena comments how light and open it feels. My roof ridge vent is made of the same material. In 15 years, I don’t think I’ve turned arena lights on 5 times during the day. When the sun is shining you do get some radiant heat, much like a window. It’s nice in the winter, but not terribly hot in the summer. I actually ride inside in the summer when it is really hot outside because the shade from the arena roof is cooler.

If the siding has not been put on your barn yet, I would seriously consider seeing if you can make a change and use this material instead of the translucent fiberglass. It’s was not that much more expensive, actually came out about even since I did not put any windows along my side walls (only 2 high ones on the gable end, which does not have clear panel).

Have fun with your new arena. Building mine was one of the best decisions I ever made. Totally love it!

#18

Our arena (60x140 with 16ft wood trusses) is now 3 years old and we love it. Here’s our set up. We are in Northeastern Ohio so get similar weather…

Our metal roof has 10 clear panels that allow the sun to help warm it in winter and bring in the light. Really does help. The top 3ft on the long sides is also clear to let in additional light. This saves us a ton as, in comparison, we use our lights very little. Our lights are LED which make it very bright and will last quite a long time before needing to be replaced. Our roof is insulated and I don’t know that I would do that again as the birds get in there and pluck it apart! Very frustrating.

We have 6 openings. 1 man door at each end (I fought this one due to having 4 very large doors but no go - code). 1 10x12 on each long side and 1 12x12 on each short side. Having a huge door on every side allows for great air flow in the summer!

We did originally place a water pump in there but then discovered the ease and utter joy of MAG flakes. Once spread you just ride - no watering :slight_smile: I cannot say enough good things about this.

#19

I’m in western MA, so we have cold winters. I didn’t insulate the roof and have very infrequent condensations drips that only last for a short time when the sun first comes up, so that’s been a non-issue. I have the translucent strip around the top that lets in enough light, but not so much that the flies come in. If I did put windows in I’d also put shutters on them so that I could cover them up if I wanted to.

I also took most of my footing out a few years ago, which solved my watering problem. When I had it in there I found myself having to water so often that it was cutting into my riding time, so scraped the footing all up and piled it outside in case I wanted to put it back in, which I never did. I have no way of knowing, but it’s possible that the horses are better off without the deeper footing, anyway.

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