Determining horse's value for a divorce

[cllane1]

Not an ad! I’ll try to keep particulars generic. Ex-DH and I have vastly differing ideas on his current market value, and I’m interested in seeing who’s closer to the mark. If necessary we can get him appraised, but you guys are usually great at providing insight.

I am NOT selling him, just wanted to get an estimate of what similar horses are going for.

7 y.o. gelding, unregistered WB by a leading h/j sire out of a main stud book Hanoverian mare with excellent USEA record at novice and training.

Has done schooling shows in h/j, dressage, event derby. No recognized shows or nationally recorded scores. Places well to middling, always lots of compliments. Last show was June 2014, schooling dressage show. Has done probably 3-5 schooling shows per year since he was 4, so about 3 years.

Last summer presented slightly NQR in RH; a summer of diagnostics (x-rays of hocks and stifles, SI injection, chiro, anti-inflammatories) didn’t really determine anything never lame, just slightly short and NQR.

Very lightly ridden in fall and winter due to owner’s schedule. NQR-ness seems improved in the rides I’ve had on him, but he has not been in consistent work so could manifest itself again.

Not a beginner’s horse, but a nice AA ride with lots of potential to be developed.

Not sure if area matters, but Texas or Alabama/Area III ideas would be quite helpful.

[Pocket_Pony]

I’ll say this from a buyer’s perspective, not what I’d try to sell him for. I started off thinking $10-15k, and the more you described him, the lower my price got, especially with NQR-ness. If that wasn’t something that could be resolved, then I wouldn’t pay anything for him. So hard - there are people who will take risks on a horse who has been sitting and is NQR, but I’m not one of them. I see that as a red flag, having had too many friends who’ve done that and have been burned.

I’m sure that was completely unhelpful. Let me guess - your ex-DH thinks he’s worth $20k and that you should pay him half.

[saje]

A 7 yo gelding who may not be 100% sound and has no show record to speak of is a liability, not an asset (in purely financial terms, I don’t mean to diss your essentially nice horse).

Bluntly, though, a horse is worth what someone will pay for it, and since it’s not something that’s easy to sell or that you can take to the local pawn shop, I think that the going price/lb is about all you can put on him.

Yes, you MAY be able to get more for him (if you were selling him) but the bills he accrues while for sale would pretty much negate the profit. Years back my husband went through bankruptcy and all of our worldly belongings were scrutinized. TPB had zero interest in the horses as an asset, even my young and marketable horse.

[cllane1]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;8060888]

I’m sure that was completely unhelpful. Let me guess - your ex-DH thinks he’s worth $20k and that you should pay him half.[/QUOTE]

He he, something like that.

It doesn’t hurt my feelings to hear that he’s not worth much on paper, that’s exactly what I expected. Could he sell for higher than what I’m thinking? Possibly, though as Saje mentioned, it would likely cost more in marketing, showing, and boarding/sale barn than would necessarily be recouped.

Basically what I have is a nice schooling show horse that may or may not have some ongoing maintenance/diagnostic needs (I’m hoping the fall and winter on Dr. Green is just what he needed to put him right, but of course it’s always a gamble).

At any rate, he’s staying with me and hopefully I can get him squared away medically and make him up into something more, but if not he’ll hang out with my retirees. Just wanted to make sure that I wasn’t out of the ballpark with what I was thinking.

[fordtraktor]

Tell your ex that if he wants to pay for all the training and marketing and showing fees you’ll campaign the horse and see if you can get top dollar for it, splitting any profits. You are too busy, so you can send horse to a top pro. You’ll have the pro send him the bills direct. If the horse is so valuable, surely he would be comfortable with this? No? didn’t think so.

[cllane1]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8060995]
Tell your ex that if he wants to pay for all the training and marketing and showing fees you’ll campaign the horse and see if you can get top dollar for it, splitting any profits. You are too busy, so you can send horse to a top pro. You’ll send him the bills. If the horse is so valuable, surely he would be comfortable with this? No? didn’t think so.[/QUOTE]

E-zackly!

[McGurk]

I started off at the 10 - 15K range too, thinking confirmed Training Level eventing, suitable for a competent amateur, but then I hit the NQR. And then I reread - does he have the USEA record or does his dam?

If it’s his dam, then what you have here is a nice $2500 local horse/Pony Club mount.

Send him to a sale barn, get him un-NQR, shown and seen, well, then that’s different. His age is in your favor, 7 is not quite “evergreen” territory.

But as the others have suggested, there is quite a lot of cost associated with increasing his value.

[Ambitious_Kate]

No recognized shows, NQR, basic training, you wouldn’t get beyond the meat prices. And I agree with fordtraktor. Get real with him. A horse who hasn’t placed high in recognized shows and has a history of lameness is nothing. Any horswe is worth only what anyone will pay for him. Sorry, Charlie. He’s your pet. He’s a liablitiy not an asset. As a pet, your husband might have been entitled so some visitation time, like he would a dog, IF he was as vested in the animal as you are. If he wants to share half the costs, he can have half the profit, but the horse won’t be ready to be sold for another 8 years. Meanwhile, cough it up, bro.

REally.

[roamingnome]

I hope that a few months on the grass have helped your boy get better! Although, I wouldn’t test that until divorce is final

A 7yo with good breeding, but minimal show experience I’d say maybe 10k? Is he super fancy? How tall? Those could both make the value go up a bit.
However, the NQR bit makes him worth next to nothing unless you can figure out what it is/treat it (not saying you’re not!)
With the NQR-ness I’d say you could probably get $1500? Someone willing to take a risk on being able to fix the NQR-ness.
Best of luck and hope your boy gets better!

[saddleup]

I agree with the above…I’d run away from a NQR horse. There are too many out there who are sound. And we all know that can change in a heartbeat.

Plus, I’ve been there, done that – have one out in my paddock who has been sitting there for almost three years. I’ve paid way more in vet bills than I paid for him, and he’s unrideable. Not doing it again. Especially not going in, knowing there’s some sort of problem.

As someone said, he’s not an asset, he’s a liability.

[JustTheTicket]

If I’m understanding this correctly, you’re not actually selling him, right? So the suggestions of marketing and sending to a sale barn aren’t really applicable here.

I think the most fair way of doing this is get an appraisal. However, if you don’t want to do that, go on sites like dreamhorse and such and see what similar horses are going for in your area.

[Where_sMyWhite]

I agree with JtT. If you and STBx are disagreeing on value, you may need a professional appraisal to bring to the table rather than opinions from a web page

Not that the opinions here are not good, but still based on your description of the horse, not someone actually experienced in valuing horses which also looked at him.

[OverandOnward]

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8060995]
Tell your ex that if he wants to pay for all the training and marketing and showing fees you’ll campaign the horse and see if you can get top dollar for it, splitting any profits. You are too busy, so you can send horse to a top pro. You’ll have the pro send him the bills direct. If the horse is so valuable, surely he would be comfortable with this? No? didn’t think so.[/QUOTE]

This. Give ex a financial summary of 1) selling costs and 2) monthly cost of keeping the horse.

The thing about a horse: The purchase price is NOT the highest cost. The cost of selling has to be deducted from any price, and those costs go up as the price goes up.

This is why only crazy people buy, own and ride horses in the first place. :winkgrin:

This is easy. Put it in ex’s court to PROVE the price he picks - not in yours to disprove it.

You back out of the discussion entirely - don’t say anything, since in his eyes everything from you is tainted. Let the professionals in the discipline provide the hard data for you.

Assignment for ex is this: Choose from this list {…} of professionals in your geographic area, he goes to visit his choice, and discuss what it would take, and what it would cost to sell this horse. BEFORE discussing price.

Then ex spends at least $500 (or more) to have a full pre-purchase exam done on the horse, as would any buyer at the ex’s price. The results of this exam will have a major impact on true market value. Whole discussion might be over at that point, since the vet history means a full xray work-up will be needed and who knows what will turn up.

Of course, horse is not sell-ready even if he was perfectly sound - long off time, no recent competition history. Horses lose market value fast the longer they are not competition-ready. Especially if there are ready horses in the local market.

So finally, ex talks with pro about price. Discusses with pro what training, competition and how many months, and how much supporting veterinary work, is needed and at what cost to get this horse ready to sell at the ex’s own choice of price. Oh, and, what the horse needs to win, as well.

Of course you can do the same thing, independently. Those are the cost numbers in your favor in this argument.

Sometimes the best argument is to let the other side have their way. Just go there and show the full picture - and let them see for themselves.

My horse is another one who is kind of an expensive ridiculous sometimes-working pet. The insurance company asked what he is worth, and I just said there is no way to know since he isn’t for sale, hasn’t been for almost 10 years, and believe me I’m the only person who really wants him.

[Guilherme]

Is this valuation for property settlement? Ask your attorney but if this is the case then you’ll likely need an appraisal.

Some alternative methods are to list the horse for sale (either with a specific price or “private treaty”) and see what you get. Or you could take him to an auction or two, set a reserve, and see what happens. Make sure you keep a video record of the process; I’m not sure what an auction house can provide in terms of evidence of bidding, if anything. Any alternative to a formal appraisal, of course, would have to be accepted by the court. Your lawyer can advise you on that.

Good luck with your program.

G.

[roamingnome]

[QUOTE=JustTheTicket;8061048]

I think the most fair way of doing this is get an appraisal. However, if you don’t want to do that, go on sites like dreamhorse and such and see what similar horses are going for in your area.[/QUOTE]

I agree with the appraisal.
Problem with looking on dreamhorse/the like is that most people aren’t going to advertise a NQR horse- they’re probably thinking it’s lame, we can’t sell it, OR they’re willing to mask the pain til horse is sold, so price would be way too high in comparison.

[TheJenners]

@JustTheTicket;8061048

If I’m understanding this correctly, you’re not actually selling him, right? So the suggestions of marketing and sending to a sale barn aren’t really applicable here.

Respectfully disagree :yes:

Absolutely they will factor in, because divorces require the value of the item in the instance that parties can’t agree on who gets what (things); items are sold and money is split. If there are costs related to selling, like fixing up a house, then it is factored in to get a market value.

FWIW OP, when I went through my first divorce, I had to buy XDH out of “his” half of my stallion. And we had to go by purchase price, even though I had to turn around and sell him at a huuuuuuuge loss because there was no way I could board a stallion and XDH went back on his agreement to stay in our property.

So you guys bred the horse yes? IIRC? I would do it this way: stud fee + training fees = value. I had to do this with a horse that had no real show record when I went to insure her for a transport, and that is how XDH #2 valued his rope horse for insurance purposes, purchase price + training fees + rodeo winnings. He counted training fees at the trainer’s, plus his training because he’s considered a pro, and came up with $35+k. Actual horse’s value? Nope, not even close, he turned $50k down a few years ago from Joe Beaver.

Just from what you described though? Yeah, not much, maybe… $2500 with the disclosure of lameness history and not being a “kick ride.” I’m leasing (and hopefully selling) a mare who was NQR most of the year last year, and while it appears resolved with extensive time off and possibly was caused by a severe case of WLD that finally came out of hiding and resulted a resection to the coronet band… I’m only asking $1000 for a 7 yo TB mare who has already evented BN and was jumping 2’6’’ courses (so-so on changes) and IS a kick ride, and is well bred. shrug Dem’s da breaks.

[omare]

I think he is a liability–unlike other “assets” horses require money to maintain - in the least, the amount you have used to maintain the alleged marital asset -since the split should be used to reduce any agreed upon price for the NQR undeveloped 7 year old.

[JanM]

In today’s depressed market, I’m betting the value would be zero after deductions for marketing, and commissions.

[cllane1]

It is for a proposed settlement. I think that we will be able to come to a mutually acceptable compromise/fair idea of value pretty soon, after I/attorney present the points that I was thinking, that have basically been confirmed by you all. I don’t think he’ll want to shell out for an appraisal since it would just be another cost that has to be partially borne by him.

And McGurk, it is his dam that has the USEA record. I re-read what I wrote and I realize it wasn’t that clear.

I was able to find some horses on USEA Area III and Sport Horse Nation that correspond roughly to his age and experience level and the prices were pretty much what I had in mind, then adjusting that value based on soundness.

[OveroHunter]

I would also say that as an unregistered horse, you should not take his breeding into consideration when valuing him.

Granted, I come from the APHA and AQHA world, but even if you say your horse is by a world champion, if you don’t have the papers to prove it then you don’t get the valuation for it.