Determining the odds of a grey colt

I am interested in a colt where the dam is grey and the sire is dark bay. I have read alot on the odds and possible ways of determining if he will end up grey. Most people think if they are born dark with dark legs they will be grey. If they are born light and then darken to black by six months will stay dark. This colt was very light bay through three months and now at six months has turned a rich dark bay with some black on his legs. In hopes he will stay dark bay. Thoughts and experiences?

Thanks!

A few tail hairs, about $40. to UCDavis, and two weeks and you’ll know for SURE. :wink:

Otherwise it’s 50/50 grey or bay.

What did the colts LEGS look like as a young foal? Were his legs mousy, “bay” colored, or were they black?

IME, if they are born a “mature color” (dark bay, black, etc. and they have dark legs at birth) they will go grey.

Back in the saddle,

Thanks, do you think an owner would be offended by this request? Obviously I would pay for it. The colt is not cheap, around 10,000. I don’t mean to offend any grey horse owners out there but I honestly would be very disappointed if he turned grey.

[QUOTE=SRF1;6009639]
Back in the saddle,

Thanks, do you think an owner would be offended by this request? Obviously I would pay for it. The colt is not cheap, around 10,000. I don’t mean to offend any grey horse owners out there but I honestly would be very disappointed if he turned grey.[/QUOTE]

Some may be, but imo, if you are willing to cough up the moola for it, I’d be fine with it. More info for me, and I didn’t have to pay for it :smiley:

If the dam is a homozygous grey, then the colt will end up turning grey for sure. If the dam is heterozygous for grey, then there is a 50% chance of the foal turning grey.

Foals that will end up turning grey are always born their rich “adult” color. For example, a chestnut foal that is born without the grey gene will be a washed out, light chestnut color and their foal coat will eventually shed out and their rich, chestnut adult coat will come in. If a chestnut foal is born with the grey gene, they will be born that rich, bright chestnut coat from the day they are born. And often, they will have grey hairs around the eyes and sometimes throughout the coat…but not always. :wink: Dark legs won’t have anything to do with it.

It sounds like the colt was born bay and will stay bay. If he was to turn grey, he would have been born a rich bay color from the beginning. …or like back in the saddle said, get a DNA color test done. The testing through Animal Genetics is only $25.

Joie, I saw a video at three months and his legs are very light bay with white. Now at six months his legs are dark bay with black and distinct white stockings behind and a white sock up front. Around his knees/ cannon bones some of the hair looks mousy.

Thanks!

It’s more like if they are born looking an adult color, they will (nearly always) turn gray. So, a black going gray is born black, and not that mousy gray of a black who will stay black. A bay will be born fully bay - black legs, brown/red body, but a bay who’s going to stay bay will have the legs be mousy or tannish

This colt was very light bay through three months and now at six months has turned a rich dark bay with some black on his legs. In hopes he will stay dark bay. Thoughts and experiences?

Thanks!

Nearly guaranteed he’s going to stay bay. But it’s going to depend largely what his lower legs looked like at birth. I’m guessing that “with some black on his legs” at 6 months means he didn’t have much/any at birth, further leading to the near guarantee of staying bay

[QUOTE=SRF1;6009651]
Joie, I saw a video at three months and his legs are very light bay with white. Now at six months his legs are dark bay with black and distinct white stockings behind and a white sock up front. Around his knees/ cannon bones some of the hair looks mousy.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

Ah, then yes, I think you can rest easy he’s going to stay bay

Most likely he’ll stay bay. But if color is one of the big deal breakers for you, I’d ask if they minded if you had him tested. I really dislike dilutes that grey. (palomino, buckskin, etc), and it’s hard to tell on a lot of them when they are young if they will grey, so if/when I buy a dilute that has a grey parent, I test. (And it’s all because I love greys, I love palominos and buckskins… but I hate the 2-5 years of “yucky” that they are when they are turning lol. I know it’s weird… but oh well lol).

I’d test. There are general indications, but they can still surprise you. Years ago I had a ‘classic’ black colt … born the mouse color you would expect, shed off black and stayed black for two years without a single white hair.

So the spring of his 3 year old year he shed out with white hairs around his eyes. By the time he was 10 years old, he was a dark dapped gray and at 15 almost white.

I was told there is no such thing as homozygous gray. It’s a 50/50 chance in this case with one bay parent. We always check the hairs along the coronet bands and around the eyes. If you see any gray hairs - it’s our experience that they will turn gray.

Let him test and pay for it if it is an issue for you. If owners do not want it you can then decide to buy or not newertheless. I would. It care about seller 's feelings- you do not ask for something related to huge hassle or unreasonable !

[QUOTE=ise@ssl;6010488]
I was told there is no such thing as homozygous gray. It’s a 50/50 chance in this case with one bay parent. We always check the hairs along the coronet bands and around the eyes. If you see any gray hairs - it’s our experience that they will turn gray.[/QUOTE]

Well, whomever told you that is… wrong. If you mate 2 grey horses, you most certainly can get a horse with two copies of the grey gene. All of the foals by that horse would then grey.

In this case the horse cannot be homozygous (1 bay parent). However if the grey parent is by two greys, they could be homozygous. Then no matter what the foal will grey.

There is homozygous gray…it means is that parent will always pass a gray gene. To have a gray offspring, you have to have a gray gene from a parent. So if you breed a homozygous gray to a bay parent…you will get gray. But if you breed a non-homozygous gray parent to a non-gray parent…you have a 50/50 chance of getting a gray.

Similar (but not exactly) with Chestunts…chestunt is even sneakier (at least with gray, you know whether or not you have a chace as you have to breed to at least one gray parent). Chestnut is a recessive gene so to have a chestnut, they had to get a chestnut gene from each parent. So when I bred my Dark brown mare to a black stallion…and got a little chestnut filly:eek: I found out that my mare has a chestnut gene;) Since my mare’s sire was gray and dam was dark brown…I wasn’t sure if there was a chestnut gene but her dam had produced a chestnut so I knew it was possible.

Luckily I don’t really care about color…but it is interesting to look at the genetics and try and guess what the foal will be while you wait FOREVER for them to be born:D

Unless there is a gene that only exists as a singleton, then every horse can be homozygous for a given trait

Homozyous means 2 of the same. Each animal gets 1 copy of each gene from each parent. If each parent passes on the same form, the offspring is homozygous for that form.

This absolutely includes gray :wink:

bornfree: Your dark brow mar, regardless of her sire being gray, is not a gray carrier since she is not gra. There is zero possibility she carries gray.

Gray is fully dominant - if it’s present, the horse WILL be/turn gray.

And BornFree would also be wrong

From UC Davis

Gray

The Gray gene causes progressive depigmentation of the hair, often resulting in a coat color that is almost completely white by the age of 6-8 years. Horses that inherit progressive Gray can be born any color, then begin gradually to show white hairs mixed with the colored throughout the body. Usually the first signs of gray hair can be found on the head, particularly around the eyes. Gray is dominant, therefore a single copy of this gene will cause a horse to turn gray. If a horse has two copies of Gray, all offspring of this horse will be gray. Research indicates that horses with one copy of Gray often retain some of the original pigment while homozygotes tend to progress to almost completely white. Gray is found in many breeds and is the predominant color of the Lippizaner breed.

Gray horses have a high incidence of dermal melanomas that are commonly seen around the tail and head. Over 70% of Gray horses older than 15 years will develop melanoma. Gray homozygotes are more likely to develop melanoma than heterozygotes. Gray horses that are homozygous for non-agouti (“aa” genotype at the Agouti locus) also have a higher risk for melanoma. Many Gray horses show depigmentation of the skin around the eyes, mouth and anus but there are no health risks associated with this condition.

Researchers at Uppsala University in Sweden discovered that a 4.6 kilobases duplication in intron 6 of gene syntaxin 17 (STX17) produces progressive graying in horses.

Gray results are reported as:

N/N

No copies of the gray gene. Horse will not turn gray.

N/G

One copy of the gray gene. Horse will turn gray and approximately 50% of offspring will be gray.

G/G

Two copies of the gray gene. Horse will turn gray and all offspring will be gray.

Thanks…I realized that after I typed it and then went back and edited it. Didn’t have enough coffee. Was thinking more about the chestnut gene which she certainly carries…and she has and throws a lot of chrome.

born free, not quite correct. Gray is dominant, you only need one gene, and the bay parent does not have that gene or it would be gray.

[QUOTE=out west;6010598]
born free, not quite correct. Gray is dominant, you only need one gene, and the bay parent does not have that gene or it would be gray.[/QUOTE]

Ditto.