Developing the tween rider: lease vs purchase

[ilovetheadd27]

Just have to say I grew up showing at Gold Creek as well (and Donida, Bridle Trails, and Cedar Downs before it was a housing complex ). Ahhh the good old days of the PNW equestrian world. From what I know, Gold Creek has newer owners, and I don’t know that they do the same type of shows they used to.

Your horse looks fabulous, and way to keep him going strong at 25!

OP, you’ve gotten a lot of great advice here, the horse you need for 3’6” is not your horse to get her to 3’. Best of luck on your journey with your daughter, enjoy it!

[Scribbler]

Yes, coming from dressage where counter canter is a thing! You don’t want auto changes on an eventing horse because of the dressage component.

[StormyDay]

@MHM

@StormyDay

Now he is going down to WEC Ocala in a week to show there. He’s going to be 25!

I just have to interject to say congratulations on keeping the horse going strong for so long! That is quite an accomplishment.

Thank you I think it’s due to lots of turnout and good genes.

[StormyDay]

@ilovetheadd27

Just have to say I grew up showing at Gold Creek as well (and Donida, Bridle Trails, and Cedar Downs before it was a housing complex ). Ahhh the good old days of the PNW equestrian world. From what I know, Gold Creek has newer owners, and I don’t know that they do the same type of shows they used to.

Your horse looks fabulous, and way to keep him going strong at 25!

OP, you’ve gotten a lot of great advice here, the horse you need for 3’6” is not your horse to get her to 3’. Best of luck on your journey with your daughter, enjoy it!

Thank you!
I loved showing at Gold Creek (mostly because I never had to worry about the rain). I also showed a lot at Bridle Trails; a lot of times in very bad weather. I also got lost there as a kid and they had to send people on horseback in to find us

[2DogsFarm]

& YOU!
Obviously not making him a Horseshow Machine.
That’s one handsome guy
Have fun at WEC

My TB was 27 (got him as a 6yo) when I took him to a Dressage clinic.
Clinician refused to believe his age.

[PNWjumper]

As a mom working on developing a good riding kid, my biggest piece of advice is to get your kid on as many horses as possible.

When I was a kid I went the one-horse route (as necessitated by finance), but rode horses for my trainer…literally anything I could swing a leg over any and every time I could. I would tell you that I learned far more about horsemanship and training through the number of horses I rode than I did with my personal horse, despite getting to ride and show him at a much higher level than any of the others.

So when my daughter started riding, I got her onto as many horses as I could from the first minute. Granted, it’s a little easier for me since I’ve always had a bunch of both young and going horses at home. But all of those different horses (doesn’t matter the level, experience, or skill of each) have taught her to RIDE. It’s fun to look back to when she was 8/9/10/11 and to see how well she rode her primary horse. But the real fun is to go back and see the year that everything kind of “clicked” with her because she was more seriously riding several. She’s also catch ridden at barns and shows whenever she can. She loves it and it’s so good for her riding!

On the buy/lease front, I think that all comes down to the horse you can get, and I wouldn’t preclude either choice. If a great lease becomes available, that’s a great way to do things. But if you have a trainer with a good eye for horses then I wouldn’t rule out buying either.

[LovesHorses]

I have boarded at Gold Creek since the new owners took over in 2017! Unfortunately we don’t host shows anymore but there is a beginner rider lesson program. Also, the owner’s daughter is an incredible rider and has a feeder program for the rated shows.

[Rumorhasit93]

@StormyDay

First photo is me and my Stormy when I was about 13 at Gold Creek in Woodinville. Do they still do shows? I had gotten him when I was 11.

Oh I love this! I did their shows back in the day, too. I don’t think they do them anymore? I even recall rated shows way back when (probably C rated?). I drove by the other day and peered at the outdoor. It’s still such a cool facility to have in Woodinville!

[StormyDay]

@Rumorhasit93

@StormyDay

First photo is me and my Stormy when I was about 13 at Gold Creek in Woodinville. Do they still do shows? I had gotten him when I was 11.

Oh I love this! I did their shows back in the day, too. I don’t think they do them anymore? I even recall rated shows way back when (probably C rated?). I drove by the other day and peered at the outdoor. It’s still such a cool facility to have in Woodinville!

They did do rated! I think that photo may have been taken at a rated show. It’s too bad they don’t do shows anymore; the PNW is still severely lacking in horse shows (especially winter shows).

[Rumorhasit93]

Petition to bring back winter indoor schooling shows (bonus if they could get a C rated one!) at Gold Creek! How cool would that be. I’d go to all of them!

[LovesHorses]

Sadly facility is full and it’s a huge undertaking. We put on two at Monroe but it was cost prohibitive. I wish I had an answer!

[Gry2Yng]

Horses quite easily learn the difference between holding the counter canter when your butt is in the tack and your leg is on and doing a change when you are in two point galloping to a fence. IIRC counter canter is not required until Modified or Prelim. If the kid wants to play at rated shows and pony finals and they are still an intermediate, they are better off with a horse with a horse that has a solid change.

[Scribbler]

I don’t know the sequence for dressage tests in Eventing. My impression is that the jumping levels go up faster than the dressage levels, and the jumping levels are the real limiting factor in terms of scope, rider ability, and safety. So perhaps the counter canter may never matter in most juniors eventing career.

Counter canter in the straight dressage tests makes its appearance before flying changes, I want to say Level 2 or 3 (need to look that up). Also it’s condidered an important schooling step to get “correct” changes.

I will say that I see dressage people getting their horses too good at counter canter and then flying changes under saddle become very difficult.

But I do think any performance horse should be able to listen to the rider and change leads or maintain a lead, and not be guessing. Especially as the rider knows the course. A horse that automatically changes leads with every change of direction, real or anticipated, might make it easy for a beginner to ride a set hunter course or barrel pattern, but ultimately is going to be limiting.

[Gry2Yng]

I’ve ridden to the 3* level in eventing, the Ammy Owner level in the hunters and the 1.20 in the jumpers. My daughter is currently doing the Low Hunters and the .90 jumpers and has evented to Novice. An auto change is in no way limiting. She can do a lovely counter canter on her jumper who also has an auto change. Having a horse cross canter through the turns ruins the rhythm, throws off your eye and generally makes for disorganized jumping. Given what this mom has said, she may want to dapple in xc, but the focus is on rated shows, her child is an intermediate rider and will benefit from an auto change. There is a lot to learn and think about at that level and asking for a change is not something for beginners/intermediates, because they can’t keep a horse straight and ride it from inside leg to outside hand. Most kids at this stage are just learning to use their corners.

[dags]

My absolutely ridiculous auto-changer meant I had to hold the haunch in all the way down the long ride to the diagonal oxer (which really messed with my eye) and had to be very careful not to shift my weight at the canter in the Eq Flat or BAM, swap in the middle of the long side.

Solid lead change? Yes, necessary. Auto lead changes, and everyone demanding that a horse have one?.. Honestly, I think it’s led to just piss-poor riding all around and plenty of otherwise great horses (with lead changes!) being “not good enough” (so you better cough up another 50k!).

IME, the kids (of all ages) who actually have to ride the change are very quick to learn about landing, balancing, and riding straight into the corner. The kids on the auto-changers never see the repercussions from just careening around a corner willy-nilly on the inside rein. Then when they do get one where they have to actually ride the change, you have to go all the way back to Corners 101 and explain why they’re important.

I’ve actually have had Big Feelings about this for awhile. Stay tuned for my upcoming release, Auto-Changes and How They’ve Ruined the Sport

[Rel6]

@Gry2Yng

There is a lot to learn and think about at that level and asking for a change is not something for beginners/intermediates, because they can’t keep a horse straight and ride it from inside leg to outside hand.

With a horse or pony with a really good but maybe not quite auto change, if the kid can ask for the canter they can ask for the change. There are so many really well schooled animals where you still have to ask, but that ask is basically “nudge with outside leg and pull on the inside rein.”

If riding from inside leg to outside hand was a requirement to get a change on anything that isn’t 100% auto, we’d be seeing a lot more missed changes.

[Gry2Yng]

I must be watching the wrong beginner/intermediate riders.

[hrlo_1722]

I love my horse and his auto change is very helpful as I learn to jump, but good god when he is fresh it’s tempi changes all down the longside!

[dags]

@hrlo_1722

I love my horse and his auto change is very helpful as I learn to jump, but good god when he is fresh it’s tempi changes all down the longside!

Yup. Or when you’re trying to teach a rider to get the horse on their outside rein, but every time they touch the outside rein it swaps off.

[NC001]

OP to get your daughter some quality ride time on a variety of horses can be challenging- my advice/what worked for my daughter was going to quality summer camps for riding. Quality is key- usually they are over night camps. She will learn horsemanship and get to ride different horses. It will help her learn what she prefers in a horse.
Good luck! Some times you get lucky and things work out for the best. Keep your eyes open for opportunities. Sometimes the right horse situation comes along.