Developing the tween rider: lease vs purchase

[RmWVue]

Hi! New member here so apologies if I have missed threads where this has been discussed extensively. My questions deals with the best steps for developing a tween rider, whether full-lease or buying is the best approach, and thoughts on how much each of these approaches might cost in the PNW.

Context: I have an 11-year old who has ridden for the last 3.5 years and half-leased a wonderful pony for the last 2 years. Things have really clicked for my daughter in the last 6 months and she has had a big increase in her riding skills. She comfortably jumps 2 ft 3 in, has a great seat and no fear, and has a leaning towards jumper. We live in the PNW and our barn regularly participates in rated shows and Pony Finals, although to date she has just done schooling shows and IEA shows, placing well in both. My understanding from talking to the trainer is that an automatic lead change is required in order to place at the types of shows they attend. We are at the point where my daughter has outgrown her pony size-wise (she is ~5’6" and growing rapidly) and I’m wondering about the best next steps to take to help her develop as a rider. Specifically, I’m debating the wisdom of a full lease vs buying. She very much wants to be able to ride throughout the week, take a horse off-site to experiment with cross-country, eventing, trail-riding etc, and to show regionally. Much as my daughter loves the thrill of a forward horse, I think it is important that she have a large pony/small horse that she can boss around and that knows what it is doing (i.e., at this stage, I do not want a horse she can help train). Our plan would be to buy a long-term horse once she reaches a certain level of riding and has reached her full height. While I want her to be competitive at the types of shows in which our barn participates, I am realistic on the limits of this (just finished reading “A Man Walks into a Barn”, based on recommendations from this group) and my primary goals are to help her develop life-skills and confidence.

With that background, my questions to you are:
(1) Ideally, what is the best strategy for developing a tween rider to go from jumping 2’ 3" jumping to 3’ 6"? Can this be accomplished with one horse or does it need a progression of different types of horses? Or is that the wrong question and we should just focus on technical skills at the lower height and flat work, until we buy her a long-term horse?
(2) Is leasing or buying 1 or more horses the best strategy, given budget constraints?
(3) What do you think are realistic budgets for leasing or purchasing the types of pony/horses that might be consistent with this strategy, in the PNW (and with access to Canada)?

I know I am asking for a lot of information and I really appreciate the time anyone takes in answering my very broad questions. Thanks!

[alterGS]

2’3 -> 3’ is a really sweet spot for finding an older lease horse that is stepping down. Will take care of your kid and allow them to grow their skills in a safe space. Then once they are comfortable at 3’ and want to move up, purchasing starts to make more sense. The type of horse you want at 2’6 is very different from the one you want at 3’6 (IMHO, unless you get very lucky).

If it were me, I’d lease something for a year or two, depending on how fast she gains the skills and then dive into purchasing.

As for cost, it’ll depend how fancy you want. Here, you could easily find a lease that needs maintenance for 4 figures, assuming you just want a safe jumper. Hunters will be more expensive.

[Bluey]

To become a well rounded rider, don’t forget to also make time to ride other horses, even lessons horses, not just leased/bought horse/s.
My cousin was more talented than I was, also a bit older, had a good job and so extra money and bought a horse and never really learned much more herself after that.
I had to ride lesson horses, later schooling horses for others, etc. and ended up a professional in several parts of the horse industry, also with other skills outside of it.

At 11 you never know how life will sort itself, but to become the best rider you really need to ride more than a handful of horses.
If horses are to be a hobby, then it doesn’t matter, she will find what she likes best at whatever level of riding she obtains, eventually, with each horse she owns.

Hope that makes sense.

[Scribbler]

I would say that over 3 feet is a huge cut off point where horses, competing, etc get much more expensive and the courses more technical. Most juniors never compete above 3 feet. Most horses can heave themselves over a 3 foot stall guard or log on the trail or single jump but not necessarily do a course nicely.

A flying change only matters for hunters. It’s going to make jumping more smooth, but jumpers aren’t marked on it.

Don’t worry about 3 foot 6. Your 11 year old daughter isn’t ready to ride that kind of horse anyhow. Realize also that her confidence is likely being built by having a great pony and that switching to a new horse will come with setbacks. I see this all the time with juniors moving up.

I would look for a small horse with a very good attitude, and concentrate on taking the next steps towards consolidating and relearning everything she mastered on the pony.

Riding is a lifelong skill. At 11 you want to be building the foundation of confidence, love of horses, and good horsemanship. Competition is irrelevant to this, expect to the extent it’s part of the local environment and expectations. We teach children to swim, ski, and ride bicycles without expecting they will compete in any of them.

I completely agree that an low intermediate 11 year old has no business with a green horse, getting bucked off or bolting. Continue providing a safe experience.

You don’t know if she will ever want to jump over 2 foot 9. You don’t know if she will enjoy the pressures of A level showing. In some ways, 11 is a magic age just before puberty kicks in. You honestly don’t know who she will be or how she will feel in 3 years.

So go with a small horse that will continue to give her confidence. If at 15 she is 5 foot 8 and full of focused grit and determination you can start thinking about a 16 hand warmblood realizing that she will be off to college in 3 years. But maybe at 15 she will want to just keep small horse and go on long moody trail rides alone and cry into her mane, and that becomes the thing that saves her sanity and cements her lifelong love of horses.

So you just don’t know.

As far as buying or leasing, and costs, I’m not in your market and can’t speak to that. If you buy and the horse stays sound with you, junior horses typically resell well.

[dmveventer]

@RmWVue

While I want her to be competitive at the types of shows in which our barn participates, I am realistic on the limits of this (just finished reading “A Man Walks into a Barn”, based on recommendations from this group) and my primary goals are to help her develop life-skills and confidence.

@RmWVue

She very much wants to be able to ride throughout the week, take a horse off-site to experiment with cross-country, eventing, trail-riding etc, and to show regionally.

What kind of budget constraints, and what are your real goals? I would ignore the purchase/lease costs for a minute and think about what type and how much showing you can comfortably support. That answer is going to shape how you approach the next step. You’re going to be looking at a different class of horses if your goal is for your daughter to be competitive in the A circuit hunter ring vs. mostly schooling shows with the occasional rated show thrown in for the experience vs. an all-rounder type that can also event, trail ride, etc.

Just from what you’ve written, it sounds like your daughter is more focused on learning and having fun than on committing to the show scene, and I’d really lean towards encouraging that in her. She can learn a ton from schooling shows and trying other disciplines, and your money will go farther, without the extra pressure and potential for burnout of trying to compete on the rated circuit. She can always focus more on showing later if that does become a priority, but I wouldn’t spend the money now on a competitive hunter type if what she really wants is more of a jack-of-all-trades pony club mount.

@RmWVue

(2) Is leasing or buying 1 or more horses the best strategy, given budget constraints?

This is going to depend on what type of horse you decide to aim for and what your budget actually is. If you decide to focus on showing, leasing is probably going to be a better choice since going from 2’3 schooling shows to rated 3’6 is likely to be at least 2-3 different horses, if not more, especially if you’re operating on a budget (aka. can’t afford the fancy packer type and have to compromise). Half-leasing is also an excellent option that’s worth keeping in the mix at this point, and leaves room for your daughter to balance horses with exploring other interests which can prevent burnout. If you decide on something more versatile I would consider buying; your money will go farther if you aren’t worried about being competitive at rated shows and you should be able to find something she can learn and grow with for at least the next 3+ years. And - side note - if she actually wants to try eventing I would shop for something that has legitimate eventing experience; for safety reasons cross-country is something you absolutely want your daughter learning on a horse that knows the job, and with a trainer that has real experience in the discipline.

The downside of a purchase is you need to be prepared to support that horse for the rest of its life - resale value is a good thing to consider but any horse could have a career-ending injury that would take resale down to zero overnight. Consider that your daughter would probably still want to ride if that happened, so you’d either have to say no to that or wind up carrying costs for 2 horses instead of 1. If you can’t/won’t support a horse that needed to be retired early, leasing is the way to go even if it’s more expensive.

Finally, while I think it’s great that you want to support your daughter in this I would also just caution you guys not to get too far ahead of yourselves yet. With 3 years of lessons and jumping 2’3 on a solid pony your daughter is still very much a novice. She’s also 11, and there’s a real chance her interests could change over the next few years. This is a prime point where some trainers will try to convince parents that their kid is a potential prodigy and could be ultra-successful, land college scholarships, etc if only the parents spent more on their riding. Don’t let anyone (including your daughter!) talk you into spending more than your family is comfortable with in the hopes of big wins or return on investment down the line. There are plenty of ways for your daughter to learn valuable life skills and enjoy herself with horses without showing every weekend on a fancy horse.

[Ponyplusaninch]

There are many paths to Everest (I think it’s like 19?); I think it ultimately ends up being how much do you want/can you pay now vs how much time you want things to take.

For sure there are 3’6” horses out there who can bring those pony riders up the ranks rapidly (think two years or so). They still teach their riders PLENTY because they are confidence boosters, and it’s important for a kid to develop that feel without fear. They are also going to be quite expensive. OTOH, if you’re buying the one horse now, while it’s a huge upfront cost you may save money later (not guaranteed).

An older horse stepping down who isn’t the fanciest but is very safe can be a great next step, whether to buy or to lease, so your daughter gets the hang of horse strides and gains confidence at the 3’. The jump from 3’ to 3’6” is the most dramatic and hardest to adjust to—not all horses can do that just like riders. Somewhere there’s a great COTH article where they interviewed trainers about knowing when a kid was ready to move up to the 3’6”

The only other thing I’ll throw out there is that 11-14 are peak social years for kids. Do you think she’s going to have the same passion a few years from now? Is she going to want to show or simply have riding as more of a hobby vs sport? Does she have long term goals that you know of? What happens if she does outgrow horses? I’d ask yourself those questions just so you can be realistic about how much money to sink into this sport—as well as how you go about spending it.

My parents didn’t buy me a 3’6” horse until I was 14. I knew at 11 exactly what I wanted to do (junior hunters and big eq dreams) but my parents were real adamant in waiting it out to be sure, because it was such a huge financial investment. I had the best 2’-2’9” honey (hence pony+ an inch) for 3 years and then graduated to a very green but very talented horse who had more than enough scope for the 3’6”. We had to keep that horse in a professional program for three years before I was doing most of the riding. It wasn’t a perfect solution but it’s the solution we could afford, and I did accomplish a fair amount of goals on my list as a junior.

[rulex]

@RmWVue

our barn regularly participates in rated shows and Pony Finals, although to date she has just done schooling shows and IEA shows, placing well in both

@RmWVue

I want her to be competitive at the types of shows in which our barn participates

@RmWVue

She very much wants to be able to ride throughout the week, take a horse off-site to experiment with cross-country, eventing, trail-riding etc, and to show regionally

@RmWVue

what is the best strategy for developing a tween rider to go from jumping 2’ 3" jumping to 3’ 6"

I think some adjustments of expectations are in order here. Competitive at rated shows and Pony Finals and saintly pony that can pack around an 11yo off property trail riding and cross country and take a novice from 2’3 to 3’6 is some kind of majikal unicorn indeed.

As another poster mentioned, cross country needs guidance from a qualified professional. Is this something your current barn is able to support with? If not, I would pump the breaks on horse shopping and start looking into providing your daughter with some positive experiences in other disciplines. This could mean taking lessons at other barns, like an eventing barn. I would worry less about being competitive in H/J and more on broadening her experiences in a safe way. She will build a good foundation as a rider that will only help her if she does eventually decide that she wants to focus on the competitive H/J scene.

Another good book to read is Denny Emerson’s “How good riders get good”. He talks about the importance of riding as many different horses as possible. There’s a difference between being a good, well rounded rider and being competitive at A shows.

[Trekkie]

Do you want your daughter to learn to be a good rider, horseperson and advocate for the animals or do you want her to learn how to show and win? There are two different paths sometimes. At 11, she needs to ride different animals, safe and confidence building types. Take lots of lessons on different horses, doing different things (cross country, trails, etc) under a trainers guidance. Then maybe lease or half lease a step up horse to continue to show on. If you want her to go to rated shows and do well this will be a more expensive animal. But she can learn as much or more riding less expensive animals and doing a lot of different and fun things. Don’t expect to buy anything capable of doing the 3’6 at rated shows at this point. That will be six figures for you anyway. Focus on her riding and horsemanship education with the best trainers and lesson animals you can find. Show locally. School cross country. Have her trail ride. Let her spend days at the barn if that’s an option. Help muck stalls. Feed. Clean tack. Wrap legs. Cool out horses. There is a lot more to horses than winning at rated shows. And usually that’s the best stuff.

[MHM]

@RmWVue

Specifically, I’m debating the wisdom of a full lease vs buying. She very much wants to be able to ride throughout the week, take a horse off-site to experiment with cross-country, eventing, trail-riding etc, and to show regionally.

Just FYI, many people who lease out a horse will have a contract regarding exactly what the horse may or may not do during the course of the lease. It might cover where the horse can live, who will be in charge of training it, how many shows it can go to, how high it can jump, etc., etc.

So depending on the horse and the person who owns it, you may not find the above activities to be included on a lease horse.

Also, if your daughter is already 5’6” and growing, she might outgrow a small horse in a hurry. If you found a small horse to lease rather than buy, that might not be a big issue. If you decide to buy, you might want to look for something a little bigger that she will probably fit for a bit longer.

There is a huge difference between 2’3” and 3’6”, especially in the show ring. I’ve seen it done successfully in a year, with a fantastic trainer and pretty much unlimited funds for fabulous, experienced horses. But typically it will take much longer, and there are a lot of different routes to get there.

High on the list of requirements would be a good trainer and a very good work ethic in the rider.

Good luck and welcome to the BB!

[Hilary]

Thank you for asking these questions!! I come from eventing/dressage and am merely a voyeur into the H/J/E world but I see so many parents rushing the transition from beginner/pony to “BIG TIME”. My friend’s neice (age 12) just moved up from her small pony to a 15.2 lease horse - he is THE BEST. He takes a joke and he takes her input. He keeps her safe and lets her learn that if she’s going to keep him from drifting left, she also has to help him adjust his stride so that center-of-the-fence jump isn’t a chip and stall. He’ll go but she says “wow that didn’t feel good” and can learn what she needs to do next. She was all top of the world on her little pony and the bigger horse has meant more strength in her position, he asks more from her and rewards the good riding. And she feels more confident/important on the bigger horse too, but she’s not overfaced so riding is still fun and learning.

I’ll second/third those who have said get her to 3’ and then worry about that 3’6" horse.

[Rumorhasit93]

You’ve received a lot of great advice here, so far! As a fellow PNW born equestrian, I also think finding the right barn to support your goals is going to be important. Some barns are mainly hunter focused (most are in this area), some are more eq/jumper leaning, which is where I’d probably go if I were you. Then, a lot of programs don’t support clients wanting to venture out of their program, even if it’s a completely different discipline (having fun going cross country or to the Woodbrook Hunt, for example).

I’d say leasing at this point in your daughter’s riding is likely the right move. If she were already doing 3’, that would be a different story. I also echo what others say and try to get her riding as many different horses as possible.

Complete side note, but as a real estate agent in the PNW who also shows h/j and is a self-proclaimed “rogue ammy”, I say buy a farm if you can and you can buy a horse and do whatever you want with it (as in, haul-in for lessons, go trail riding, turn your horse out…etc).

[Laurierace]

No horse or pony needs an auto change, they just need to have a change and a rider who can ask for one. Auto changes are for riders who can’t ask for one

[horsegirl2341]

I’m not in your area but as far as pricing goes, which I think is pretty comparable across the US, for a horse capable of 3’6 expect high fives for either a young one with potential, a mediocre more eq type, or one with maintenance/quirks. For the 3’6 packer and/or fancy winning jr hunter expect well into the six figures.

Depending on your budget, leasing at this point would probably be the best financial decision. As others have said, it doesn’t exactly sound like she knows what she wants to do which is okay but leasing gives her the opportunity to find that out without committing to a single horse. If she finds that the goal is JR hunters/Big EQ/Junior jumpers then after a few years buy a younger one that you will keep in professional program. At that point, she will be more experienced and can help bring that one along.

[Cowboy_Girl]

To break down your circumstances a bit more

• Learning the skills to safely and properly jump (from 2’3") up to 3’6". This is similar to the difference between kindergarten t-ball and playing on a high school travelling league team. In eventing this is Starter, Beginner Novice, Novice, Training and Preliminary. This requires fitness, good coaching, dedication, development of muscle memory, lots miles/experience on different types of horses, money and family commitment - it becomes a lifestyle for the family.

• Child is 11, growing like crazy, and is not in junior high/high school yet. Her life and interests may change A LOT between now and 14. She may remain horse crazy or not or want to do other sports.

• Pony vs horse. Horses are just different than ponies. Even honies are very different. Their striding, their feel, their reactivity. There will be an adjustment and learning process.

Suggest a series of leases to hedge your bets on her interest level and expose her to different horses. Most people will lease up to the Beginner Novice/Novice level/sub 3’-ish. These are also where the skills that last a lifetime and keep you safe are made (example - you can ride all 3 phases of a Novice level test without stirrups.) If interest and commitment remains high, and skills are appropriate, consider a purchase at 14.

[RmWVue]

Thanks everyone for the detailed feedback. It is very helpful to understand that 3’ is a critical changing point in looking for horses. I will look into the recommended resources as well as see what other programs/experiences are in the area that could provide exposure to other riding disciplines.

[Rel6]

I think you have gotten a lot of great advice, and echo that leasing is probably a great choice at this stage.

The one thing I would push back on is not to focus too much on height or a “big” vs “small” horse but rather the right fit in terms of experience and overall build. Some tall horses feel very manageable because they are narrow and short-backed, and some “small” horses can ride like a bus if they’re long backed. Often times we focus on how tall a horse measures to see if something is “big” or “small,” but so much more goes into whether it will actually feel big, overwhelming, or intimidating to ride.

[trakehners]

@Rel6

The one thing I would push back on is not to focus too much on height or a “big” vs “small” horse but rather the right fit in terms of experience and overall build. Some tall horses feel very manageable because they are narrow and short-backed, and some “small” horses can ride like a bus if they’re long backed.

Just going to second this, OP. I’m pretty tall (~5’9”) but I’m all leg with a relatively short torso. My horse is 16.2hh but he’s definitely on the gracile side and doesn’t feel anywhere near as large as he actually is. I’ve ridden (large) ponies because I’m not too long up top to be unable to be in balance on them. They just have to have enough barrel to take up my leg.

At 11, your daughter probably only has another year or two of major height changes, so I wouldn’t assume that she’s going to become a lot taller than she already is. I grew five and a half inches in a year when I was twelve and then tacked another couple of inches on over the course of eighth and ninth grade. I rode a 16hh horse with a fairly stocky build over the course of that time and he was the perfect size for me—not so large before my growth spurt that I couldn’t manage him at 5’2” and probably 100lbs soaking wet, but not so small that I was too tall after I grew either. There’s a sweet spot somewhere in there in terms of size if you end up deciding to make a long-term commitment via buying (although I would encourage leasing at this point for reasons everyone else has already outlined).

I’d also echo what has already been said re: trying eventing—please make sure your daughter is doing it under the guidance of someone who knows the sport and that she’s on a horse who already knows the job. I fell in love with cross-country when I was her age but that’s because I was riding under the instruction of someone who had already run Advanced by the age of 20 and knew what to do to not overface me or allow it to be any more dangerous than it inherently is. XC is one place where you absolutely do not want the blind leading the blind (leading the blind, if trainer, kid, and horse are all new to it). Colorful poles in the arena will fall down. Most XC fences do not. Plan accordingly.

[StormyDay]

First off I’d talk with your daughter and her trainer about goals. What are your daughter’s goals? Does she want to do rated shows? Or is she more interested in having fun on a horse? If she wants to show, I’d talk to the trainer. What does the trainer feel is a good fit for your daughter right now?
I’d also question why she hasn’t shown at a rated show if the barn is going to them. Is it because they don’t have suitable lesson horses for it? Is it because most of the riders own their own horses? I’d be thinking about if this barn is still a good fit for your daughter or if your daughter has outgrown what the barn can provide.

If your daughter wants to do pony finals, she has to, well, have a pony. But at her height she probably is going to feel better on a horse. I would not worry about getting something small. I have seen 14h ponies that grown men have trouble riding and 18h horses ridden by 7 year olds.
Then I would think about your daughter’s personality. How attached is she going to get to this horse? Can she ‘be done’ with a lease after a year? Or is she going to be devastated? If you think she can handle a lease, I’d lease something that is a 2’3 to 2’6 schoolmaster and spend the next year showing rated at that height and then reevaluate in a year and see if she’s ready to lease something that can go bigger. Since she has never shown rated it would really help her if the horse she is riding has been to 1 million shows and knows exactly what to do.

If she probably cant do a lease OR she actually is more interested in just having fun, buy her a horse. Involve a trainer, have her try a bunch, and one of them will click and you will know. You never know where that horse will take her.

First photo is me and my Stormy when I was about 13 at Gold Creek in Woodinville. Do they still do shows? I had gotten him when I was 11.

Second photo is him and I jumping somewhere around 3’6 to 3’9 in Aiken at a PSJ show.

Now he is going down to WEC Ocala in a week to show there. He’s going to be 25! My parents were in the same position you are when I was 11. They chose the horse I clicked with over making sure it was the right color for hunters or the right fit to get me to Eq finals. And I am forever grateful for that.

[MHM]

@StormyDay

Now he is going down to WEC Ocala in a week to show there. He’s going to be 25!

I just have to interject to say congratulations on keeping the horse going strong for so long! That is quite an accomplishment.

[Orbit_Orange]

This x100. Equating a change and an auto change is a pet peeve of mine, as is implying that an auto change is always better. I personally prefer a horse that will stay on the lead I tell them to and do the change when I tell them to.