Okay, first things first: yes, it’s completely reasonable to demand a refund in this situation. Also, before I say much more, I have made no secret on this forum or elsewhere about my disdain for Devoucoux’s attitude toward customer service, their fitting philosophies, and their deeply recessed stirrup bars that are so deep that they pinch the hell out of some horses no matter how much padding you put under them. Some horses fit just fine in Devoucoux, especially when paired with a half pad. But others simply don’t. (In fairness to Devoucoux, we could say that about most saddle brands…but at least the other brands attempt to maintain some basic customer service and attempt to do some basic saddle-fitting education with their customers. Devoucoux? Not so much.)
That said, they’ve sort of got you over a barrel at the moment. They can basically force you to wait until the saddle arrives. And honestly, that’s not such an unusual policy. To be frank, a lot of customers (NOT YOU but a lot of other customers) get a MAJOR case of anxiety and buyer’s remorse while they’re waiting for a custom saddle to arrive. A lot of them are just plain chickening out, and they feel 100% better once the custom saddle arrives and fits the horse just fine. That’s not the case with YOU, a customer who has an unhappy horse now and has every reason to think she’ll have an unhappy horse when the saddle arrives…but again, from Devoucoux’s perspective, they could lose thousands of dollars a year in customers who would ultimately end up very happy if they let people “chicken out.”
And honestly, I can count on one hand the number of companies in any industry who will let you cancel a custom order while it’s in the process of being made. Almost all of them will force you to take delivery and then return the item. So if you can, try to stay calm. I gather this is your first time at the custom-saddle rodeo, so let me tell you a secret: it’s going to take you at least a month to find something else you want to buy anyway. Probably longer than that. So you can funnel your rage into trying to find an alternative, with every intention of returning this Devoucoux the moment it hits American soil.
That said…do yourself a favor and don’t muddy the waters of this transaction by bickering about their panel codes and the fitting process, how and whether these saddles fit some other pony who’s not even involved, etc. Your one and only line to Devoucoux should be “My horse is very unhappy with the fit, and after conferring with several equine professionals including my trainer, we’ve decided that it’s simply not going to work. I want a refund. I am not interested in another Devoucoux.” Don’t bring up any of this stuff because they’re just going to call you out and say that you’re an irrational customer who doesn’t know what you’re talking about, has buyer’s remorse, blahblahblahblahblah. That is NOT you, and you don’t deserve to get branded that way, so avoid giving them the opportunity.
[QUOTE=karasha;7568373]
I had a used Devoucoux Biarritz (PX5-PX410-PX310) that I adored for me, but it did not fit my horse.
SNIP
Devoucoux rep comes out. I have her fit my horse for a new Devoucoux Oldara and she takes my Devoucoux Mendia (dressage saddle) to get refitted to my horse’s back. She decides the Devoucoux Oldara should come in PX5-PX4C15-PX310 [which I realize now is it’s basically just 5mm of stuffing more in the shoulder portion of the saddle].[/QUOTE]
No, it’s actually worse than that. PX 5 is the shoulder region. PX3XX is at the rear of the saddle. The PX4XX range is in the middle of the saddle, under the stirrup bars. So adding 5mm of padding in the PX4 region would just make the saddle MORE curvy overall, not less. To “flatten out” a Devoucoux panel, you need something more like PX 5 PX 405 PX 315. (I will skip my rant here about how that doesn’t change the curvy shape of the Devoucoux tree. We’re not here to fight about the rightness or wrongness of Devoucoux’s philosophy of customizing panels but not trees.)
I got off the horse after the first ride and low and behold, it’s pinching his shoulder because she instructed that the shoulder portion be stuffed to high hell. I texted her letting her know that the Mendia does not fit and that the saddle is basically blocking his shoulder. She says give it another ride (which I do not – I am not going to put the a saddle that hurts my horses back). I give the Mendia to my mom for her Dressage horse. $800-something that is a total waste.
Okay, I’m not necessarily suggesting that you try this, nor have I seen the horse nor the saddle so I’m just guessing here…but the frank truth is that most Devoucoux saddles with these specs are designed to work better with a half pad in the mix. Yes, I said designed, not just “it’s a band-aid fix that some riders do.” Often, on a horse of the build you’re describing, Devoucoux functions better with some padding to lift it up and off the withers, create more “slide room” for the shoulder, and add some extra padding under those ultra-close-contact stirrup bars. I wouldn’t be surprised if your Devoucoux worked better–albeit not great–with that configuration. Again, I am not suggesting that this would majickally solve all your problems. It sounds like there are other, systemic issues here–like the too-curvy panel overall, which a half pad will just exacerbate. My point is simply that the Devoucoux reps may not have been completely straight with you about how their saddles are designed to function.
You may skip the rant here about how you’re paying for a custom fit and don’t want any pads in the way. We know, and I’m sure you’re very pissed, as well you should be. I have no problem with this particular aspect of Devoucoux’s fitting philosophy (half pad use, that is) but for Pete’s sake, they should tell their customers about it before the customer buys the saddle so that the customer can make an informed decision. I happen to own another saddle by another brand that’s designed to work better with a half pad under it, but I knew that going in and had the saddle fitted accordingly.
I happen to know someone who has a Oldara in the same specs (PX5-PX415-PX310) because guess what, if you look at most of the Devoucouxs out there, they are this exact same spec (which really gets me annoyed – do they think this one fit fits all horses?!).
As someone who’s probably read 150+ Devoucoux serials in my Saddle Geek travels…that set of specs is very common, but it’s not the only specs I’ve seen by a long shot. The reason you see it so often is that it’s the set of panel codes that IMO tends to best mimic the overall shape of the Devoucoux tree (PX 415 and PX 310) plus the PX5 adds some padding up front to snug up the generous medium-wide width of Devoucoux’s standard Arcade Normale (because many horses are more medium than medium-wide.) In other words, it’s the set of panel codes that fits most horses who are naturally suited, body-wise, to a Devoucoux saddle. Unfortunately, as you have noted, it also tends to be the set of specs that some reps reach for over and over again, even in cases that should call for something else.
But again, do not muddy the waters with Devoucoux by bringing any of this up. It’s irrelevant. All that matters is that your horse doesn’t like the saddle, and you’re done trying to make a Devoucoux work for this horse, regardless of whether there is a set of Devoucoux panel codes out there that could work well for your horse. To be extremely frank, even if the saddle fit the horse like a glove, you should be able to return the saddle if the horse doesn’t like it. Horses are like people; sometimes the saddle can fit like a freaking glove, and the horse just isn’t into it. If you’ve ever tried on a pair of shoes that fit you perfectly but just didn’t feel good to you (::cough:: I feel that way about Birkenstock ::cough::), you’ve experienced this phenomenon.
She texts back:
[INDENT]When would you like me to call you?[/INDENT]
I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the company to want to speak with you via phone before they give a refund on a $5000+ saddle. For all they know, those emails could have been written by your kid sister who was playing a prank (or whatever). It’s reasonable to want to hear it right from the horse-owner’s mouth, I think. You were smart to put it in writing so that there’s a paper trail, but I vote that you call them too.
Please send me an address to return the trial saddle*. It unfortunately did not fit my horse either and wasn’t really something I could use – it was incredibly narrow and unforgiving.
I would encourage you not to use the description “it was too narrow” with Devoucoux. I completely get what you’re saying–it pinched your horse’s shoulder, therefore you interpret that it’s too narrow. That’s fair, I suppose. But Devoucoux may use that characterization as ammunition against you because the saddle’s tree width is probably just fine for your horse, so they’ll say that it “wasn’t too narrow.” Nonetheless, the point is, Devoucoux wasn’t able to achieve a panel shape that gave your horse’s shoulder enough room to move. Whether that means the saddle was “narrow” or not is beside the point. See above re: sticking with your one line.
[* She sent me a “prototype” Devoucoux Lamaze saddle, which is their off the rack saddle they are I guess trying to make? God awful saddle and it pinched my 12.2 hand pony’s shoulders must less fit my 18 hand horse that she sent it for.]
Never mind your pony, who could have any number of saddle-fitting challenges that are totally different from your 18-hand horse’s fitting challenges. Keep that clear through-line of “The horse I ordered this for is not happy, and I want a refund.”
I paid with a credit card, so I am going to dispute the charges if she doesn’t refund.
Alas, if you call your credit card company, they’ll probably confirm that you can’t dispute the charge until the saddle is either in hand and you’ve submitted proof that you returned it to Devoucoux OR the saddle goes MIA for so long before delivery that you can claim it as an unreceived item. Certainly, if the transaction goes that far south, you should consider this route. But I’m saying that it’s not a bail-out for you at this exact moment.
This is my first time buying a brand new saddle, so I don’t know if my request is completely rude or if it is reasonable.
Best of luck as you resolve the transaction. I hope it works out for you!
