Devoucoux Saddles and proper fit?

And your factual basis for this is what? that you bought a saddle that made your horse sore, that some pros also ride in?

You really think McLain Ward is jumping HH Azur in a saddle that will destroy her back? You really believe this? Allison Springer? Phillip Dutton? Charlotte Dujardin/Carl Hester?

Sorry, I don’t buy it. Sorry you made a mistake with your saddle buying. We all have, I won’t ever touch a Stubben again and they’re everywhere (being fit by idiots, but that’s beside the point entirely). But I really don’t think it’s fair to say this.

Some will, and a lot won’t.

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Have to say, I agree with Jealoushe. I’ve witnessed several ULR (perhaps not all BNT, but still professionals at 2star and above obtaining sponsorship) take the bait while their horses’ backs deteriorated. Other custom $$$ saddles too, not just Devoucoux. Riders were blissfully oblivious, blaming soreness or failing muscle tone on “increased fitness” or some other ailment (hocks). Some chiros don’t dissuade it, as the regular “fix 'em” visits were good business.

The only saddle company that comes close to fitting “all” horses is WOW, and that’s because the parts are interchangeable to fit different wither shapes, gullet width, shoulder sizes, etc, and can be balanced with air. Still, it won’t work for every horse and has a much different feel that riders may not like.

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Ok first of all, clarify what you are asking. You are asking for proof then talking about the saddle that ruined MY horses back. Two different topics.

My “proof” is that I have actually witnesses riders, take sponsorship and ride in a saddle they don’t particularly love or think fits because it was free or highly discounted, and they were getting a sponsorship. Sell to their clients so they can get more “free” saddles.

Some people sponsored by this particular saddle maker, do not keep horses in their barn long enough to see the long term effects. Some people sponsored by this company ARE having back issues on horses and post about it on social media. Some people sponsored by this saddle maker are the same people jumping XC in draw reins…so no, I don’t think ALL UL riders or pros are diligent or care. I have seen an ULR take a horse across the ocean knowing the horse wouldn’t be sound after that event. Let’s not pretend that ALL ULRs are good horseman, I think the EDH thread proves just that.

Does Mclain, Phillip, and Charlotte and Carl ride in Devoucoux? No, I don’t think so.

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I think it depends. The difference, many times, between a BNT’s horse and say, a BN amateur’s horse (which is the bigger market) is that the BNT’s horse gets a full spa treatment almost after every major event. Chiropractic and massage work regularly, hydrotherapy, shockwave, theraplates – basically, the whole therapeutic gauntlet thrown at the horse to make any residual body complaint after hard work go away.

The BN horse usually does not have this luxury - maybe regular chiro/massage work once a month, but in my experience in many barns, not much more. So… the damage accumulated from a badly fitting saddle is more likely to be worse IMHO with the horse that does not have a bevy of therapeutic work done to it on the regular.

I have seen many big barns, in your area, switch from Devoucoux to Stubben or CWD in mass exodus style after complaints of very sore backs. I think that says something.

The reason Devoucoux has the reputation it does is not a fluke, but I am not 100% sold it is because purely of the quality of the saddles. I believe it is because a lot of the Devoucoux reps quite frankly have no idea how to fit a saddle to a horse, and push saddles onto clients that may not be the best fit for the horse. Saddle reps are not saddle fitters, despite their claims to the contrary - and people should stop taking their word that a saddle fits. They are trying to sell you a product; they don’t care, IMHO, if that product is useless to you down the road.

Just as a BM who has a casual knowledge of saddle fit, I can tell you I have seen some glaringly obvious fit errors on Devoucoux, immediately after purchase - bridging, pinching the shoulders, completely unbalanced, etc.

Ironically, the Devoucoux rep in my area circa 2012, made the bold claim to me many times that Devoucoux was the best brand and all other saddles were “garbage” - I was one of the only riders in the barn that had not made the switch (and never did). She didn’t like my Kieffer much.

She is now a Stubben rep, and swearing up and down that all other saddles are terrible for horses’ backs, Devoucoux are known to be horrible and have “ruined so many of her clients’ horses backs…”, etc etc… as if people cannot remember that six years ago she was peddling for Devoucoux and was the one that sold her clients the very saddle that ruined their horses’ back.

Saddle-fitting is such a nuanced, complex thing that I don’t think a representative with passing knowledge of horse anatomy and saddle construct should be able to assert claims of saddle fit/not saddle fit, unless they are actually certified saddle-fitters… which most are not.

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:lol:

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McLain rides in CWD, Phillip in Antares, Charlotte in Equipe, Allison in Amerigo. All evil, foam flocked saddles.

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Amerigo is wool flocked, not foam, unless something changed very recently.

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I love my Amerigo! On the same horse who got the sore back from a Devoucoux, had an Amerigo fitted and never had an issue, shes going better than ever and actually has a topline now. Just wanted to add a positive post lol

I can’t think of a French brand off the top of my head that has a tree that can be pressed–Dev, Voltaire, CWD, Amerigo (not French, but you know what I mean), Butet, etc, but maybe I’m forgetting something obvious. Many (not all!) of the wool flocked brands are able to be adjusted width wise. In my mind, it’s just a different perspective in fitting–if you’re anticipating and allowing for back changes, a brand is more likely to allow for width changes as well. Does that mean that a banana-shaped tree will fit a flat back–heck no! But no flocking or shimming will fix that either.

^^yep. This is what I meant. Although I had an interesting conversation recently with a new to FEI level dressage rider/equine vet. Her horse has gone from being fairly wide as a youngster to narrowing as his muscling has changed. His withers have sprouted upwards and his rib cage has gotten taller too. If it had been described to me when I couldn’t see first hand, I would have assumed atrophy or something weird, but nope. Gelding is really well muscled, yet radically different from when he was younger.

Today I met up with a woman who runs a regional travelling consignment business that seems to be primarily the popular foam French brands. I brought my wither tracings, not the horse. In her opinion, most of the French brands would be a bit narrow, a bit flat, and too short in the pommel for my mare. Most of what she said and showed me lined up completely with what my independent saddle fitter says, so I tend to believe her.

The all or nothing approach to saddles has always mystified me. Different brands work for different horses. What’s comfortable for me might not be ideal for a different rider of similar proportions. It’s a little disingenuous to rate a brand as “garbage” and “OMG IT HURTS ALL HORSES” just because it didn’t work for a particular horse or batch of horses. Unless the saddles are being manufactured with thumbtacks in the gullet, they are probably going to work/not work for an equal proportion of horses and riders. If owners/trainers are making bad decisions for their horses in order to please a sponsor, that’s not any particular saddle brand’s fault.

Equal volumes of literature supporting opposing points of view and all that.

@soloudinhere I have the new Devoucoux Harmonie dressage saddle and the horses I’ve put it on have all been really happy in it. I bought it for my tough to fit DHH, but it fits Cotton really well and he is a short backed but very well muscled Tb. I was in a Trilogy before that, and it was very comfortable but did not fit the sausage link that is my DHH.

Someone upthread brought up the point about horses possibly developing soreness if they are in the same saddle every day. I do wonder about that. Shoot, if I wore the same shoes every day I’d probably be miserable; even if they were a good fit. I’m in my Harmonie 2-3 x per week, my jump saddle (Stackhouse on Cotton, old Albion K2 on the DHH and babies) 2 x per week, and usually a bareback pad hack on the remaining day. Sometimes I do my entire flat school in the bareback pad, but that’s for my development.

As an aside, is it me or are there an unusually high number of threads pertaining to Devoucoux being bad? Marketing ploy or coincidence . . .

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I doubt any of the high end saddles are terrible. I do think that many, perhaps most, sales reps over promise and under deliver on fit. I do think that most horse owners know nothing about fit beyond gullet width and are easily snowed. I do believe many horse owners make the big plunge to buy a new saddle full price hoping that if you spend enough money things will be perfect. I also suspect that a certain number of people buy these saddles to try to correct existing physical issues which might or might not be related to the previous saddle, or to how horse is ridden, or to workload.

Any saddle that is oversold will end up on a bunch of horses it doesn’t fit. And if the owners are ignorant about saddle fit they will blame the saddle and not the fit.

This should however be a wake-up call for the brands and reps as they can damage their brand reputation by overselling.

I do like the idea of switching saddles. I did that for a while until we outgrew our jump saddle. Horse turns out to be fine in dressage saddle day after day and on long trail rides.

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Well said

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The amount of amateurs who want to be somebody and go somewhere that are currently ‘sponsored’ by devocoux amazes me. Which makes me think, they are just handing them out to get their name out there more, doesn’t exactly mean they are the best.

A saddle is such personal preference, you will get all opinions from one side of the scale to the other.

To add to the UL riders using saddles that fit their horse… no, no they don’t. Do you not see them padded up to the nines or ever just sit by the warm up rings and look at tack. They all ride as if their tack fits all horses, it does not. I know a few UL riders that take sponsorship but don’t necessarily care if the saddles fit. As long as they are good enough to get around, that’s all that matters.

As someone stated above, they get enough massage, chiro, aqua therapy to fix those painful areas before you even know what it’s related to.

I’ve seen BNRs with horses who have respiratory issues, are on nebulizers and other meds, yet they continue to bed their stalls with straw. (Rule #1 of maintaining a horse with breathing problems: NO EFFING STRAW.) It’s like trying to put out a fire while simultaneously adding more lighter fluid. I don’t think it’s that they don’t care, but they just don’t want to admit that what they’ve been doing for years is wrong.

And there are a lot of UL horses that are out there competing with sore/painful backs yet still manage to get around clear. (Copper Beech is one of them… poor horse looks miserable every time he jumps.) Just goes to show what kind of heart these amazing horses have.

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