It’s actually the NRHA I was thinking of, but I’ll look up barrel racing.
Here is the NRHA rules https://www.quarterhorsenews.com/2022/08/nrha-updates-medication-policies/
The ribbon!
I always get stuck on the $1.50 ribbon thing. It’s dramatic shorthand that people love to use to illustrate the motivation behind abusive practices. And I guess it ultimately does distill way, way down to that, but it’s also so much messier than that – because of the entire industry that sprung up and revolves around competition. Obviously no one is over-medicating because they’re worried about the braider or show photographer having work but it takes a big, complex industry to sustain these kinds of support jobs. It’s like the food web (remember how braiders and photographers were impacted by the pandemic?).
And when people talk about greed, there’s certainly greed but it’s also an oversimplification, too.
One of the things I remember most about being a junior, was thinking I wanted to do this professionally and all the “reality check” conversations I had with parents and trainers about what a truly hard way this is to make a living. Just a living.
And that was in the salad days when it was easier to do nice shows on a real shoestring. So now I can only imagine what it takes to make a good living, let alone a living in the horse industry. How many people are putting on a good act and have a fancy show set-up but are chronically late paying their bills? How many sketchy sales operations are there out there? I don’t think anyone’s come here thinking show horses are easy money. They’re anything but easy money (or they are in the way that gambling can seem like easy money), but people with money are attracted to them.
It’s no wonder meaningful change is slow to come (like holding owners to account, which I would vote for, twice, if we weren’t talking about cleaning up sport, lol).
5 Likes
I think a friend of mine said it best recently that has been in the industry for decades - she said “when trainers wanted to start living like their extremely wealthy clients with generational wealth is when it all went wrong.” I can’t say I disagree with her, I think at the end of the day there’s a fair living for a horse trainer and then there’s the reality of what the ones that are “top” BNT are making, many of the ones who are the culprits in the cheating, drugs, abuse of the horses that is being discussed on here. My honest opinion is a horse trainer is an average type of job, where 100k-125k/yr should probably be where it is (especially considering many have no formal business education.) The reality is at the top, some are stealing this in just one or two “horse deals” through “hidden commissions” . A whole additional topic that I’m not going into on this thread. I have plenty of trainer friends who aren’t these types struggling just to make 80k/yr, but the people we are talking about overall in the cheating are not struggling for money is my honest opinion, and may sometimes be making way more than their “wealthy” clients. I saw someone who I think said it very well on one of the reposts of the article today.
20 Likes
… and we talk about level playing fields … 
That’s absolutely infuriating.
3 Likes
You know, I usually just ignore the gratuitous silliness here, but I don’t think I can let this one slip by. Apologies to the rest of the thread for the tangent.
Wow. A lot to unpack here, considering this quote from your other recent thread:
I’m an eventer in a full training program. My trainer is a unicorn for a lot of reasons. She’s one of the best instructors I’ve ever seen in any field (and I have instructed professionally in multiple different fields as well as mentoring instructors myself, so I feel pretty confident in my ability to judge), she’s ridden at the upper levels herself, and she improves every horse she sits on, from feral off-breed ponies to my own moderately fancy made horses.
All of that is nice, but there are other people who meet that criteria; in Area II I am in a target-rich environment on that front.
What makes her a unicorn is this: she is a thoughtful businessperson who has carefully structured her business in such a way as to meet both her own needs, so she doesn’t burn out, as well as the needs of her clientele. She is unfailingly positive, helpful, and low-ego. She always, always puts the horse first. She has an uncanny eye for making great horse/rider pairs (I generally have few regrets, but I still regret that I made the financially sensible decision not to buy one that caught her eye for me, who is now collecting blues at lower FEI-level championships with a rider of roughly similar initial skill) and an extensive network of connections, but she’ll teach (and improve both you and the horse!) on anything that is healthy enough to work. She gently, positively encourages forward those who might be on the more timid side and puts the brakes on those who are not yet ready… and she does so without fear of losing clients in the latter instance, because, again, she has structured her business in a way that she is able to do so.
I have seen my trainer repeatedly, cheerfully work from six in the morning to 11pm without complaint, doing everything from riding horses to mowing. I have seen her get kicked, hard, and still teach for the next few hours. I have seen her cleaning stalls on major holidays because the person who was supposed to do it didn’t show up.
(And no, she doesn’t have a business degree. Neither does my spouse, who also owns their own business.)
I could, if I wanted to, probably take a guess at how much she grosses in a year. I would probably be in the ballpark, because I’m pretty observant and I know how to do math. But I don’t want to and I’m not going to, because a) it’s absolutely none of my business, and b) however much it is it’s not enough.
I work in tech. I’m a high performer (as are many other people here in this corner of the Internet), and I’m quite well compensated in my field… though, to be clear, in the “working professional” sense, not the “generational wealth” sense. I worked pretty hard to get here.
I do not work anywhere near as hard as she does.
Even though she is one of the few equine professionals who has actually created a sustainable business model, and even though many of the horses she rides are lovely, and even though I want someday to ride at the upper levels myself, I would not trade jobs with her if I could. Riding three a day in the rain, as I sometimes do as an ammy, and then getting to a full workday (of things that can be done indoors, in climate control, while sitting, and that I mostly usually enjoy) is not always a blissful experience. She rides eight or ten and then gets to her full workday of all the other things that need to be done, which often involve clients in emotional crisis, staffing issues, things that have been destroyed by animals and/or people, and/or mud.
And while I don’t think my particular trainer chooses to spend her free time on COTH, I know that we have many other good, caring, talented, ethical, hard-working trainers on here that do, at least a few of whom have posted in this thread.
So. Who are you, person on the Internet who “spend[s] hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on this as a hobby” (i.e. at least twice as much AFTER TAX as you’re suggesting trainers “should” make, so really probably closer to 4x as much) and is still unhappy, to feel qualified to declare this an “average type of job” and confidently pronounce what amount trainers “should” make? What value do you provide to the world that’s so much greater as to make it right for you to spend double their suggested total income on your expensive luxury sport pet hobby, especially considering that many good trainers chose this path in an attempt to facilitate their own competitive dreams?
That’s a rhetorical question, by the way. I don’t care who you are or what you do. You’re wrong. And if I sound outraged that someone would have the sheer chutzpah to confidently declare this about someone else’s livelihood, it’s only because I am.
So, as I said. Wow.
(And to think, I didn’t even get to unpacking “an average type of job [is] 100k-125k/yr”! Because hoo boy on that one, too, in most non-Expensive Luxury Sport Pet circles.)
40 Likes
First: I was VERY CLEAR in saying the BNT at the “top” of the sport. Those are the same trainers that nothing is “ever enough” by the way! I have plenty of friends just like your trainer, who likely struggle to make a reasonable “liveable” wage where they don’t worry to make ends meet. And they work incredibly hard. The average household income in America is 80k, and the average individual salary is $47,000. The median income of those with a bachelor’s degree (some type of formal education) is $77,000.
Second: Horse trainers with 0 formal education making 125k are very fortunate in this country on the standards of living. I personally don’t feel like horse trainers (whether they work many hours or not) should be 7 figure earners - and at the top of this sport they are. That is my personal opinion. We have a client that underwrites insurance for medical professionals, some of the top physicians in the world. Neurosurgeons that are not even making 7 figures after working for years and years. Cancer specialists that work tirelessly to save people. I’m sorry but greed has infiltrated this business. I know there’s many that work very hard, but 7 figure earners and horse training I do not believe go hand in hand, or shouldn’t. And I’ll tell you, I have 2 grooms on our payroll at my farm, both of which have worked at BNT and made 1/2 hourly what we pay them. We value people and take care of them. But as I mentioned in the post you quoted me, at the top, nothing is ever “enough” for those trainers.
10 Likes
Education does not require a college to happen.
18 Likes
I understand that. 125k is more than the majority of people with formal education are making.
8 Likes
And to be completely honest, I don’t really care about what anyone makes in life (more power to them), but when it seriously damages and affects the long term of helpless animals that is where the buck stops for me (no pun intended). I have a serious problem with people that are willing to make 7 figures by abusing and mistreating animals. That’s criminal. Just like someone who embezzles to make 7 figures. Sorry. And that is what this thread needs to be about. Mistreatment and how we collectively can band together and try to put a stop to it.
11 Likes
You compete in one of the ficklest, most political, most expensive forms of horses in sport. Only reiners come close to the number of drug offenses, if I read that right earlier.
You’re IN IT. Oh, but the poor helpless animals!!! Sobs in hypocrisy.
10 Likes
QFP.
5 Likes
So you really believe that just because people in the sport “have money” they don’t care about their animals? I have news for you many don’t even realize what is happening with their animals in these “programs” and wouldn’t be ok with it for one second. Again, this is about abuse, why it happens doesn’t even really matter. Be the change for the horses. I quit supporting all of it when I was truly faced with the reality of how it destroyed my horses.
5 Likes
My trainer, who is definitely not at the top of their sport but is good, runs a pretty shabby program (compared to a true BNT, not a judgement) and still brings in a 6 figure income by doing very little. They’re pretty burned out on high level stuff and still make a VERY comfortable living running a facility and teaching lessons. They help clients sometimes with horse purchases or sales, but I can guarantee that is the smallest part of their income. The BNT in the HJ world (maddens, dignellis, clarks, etc.) are easily bringing in $500k per year through commissions etc. We are not the same lol.
6 Likes
Yes, really.
If it’s about welfare, why were you, why are you, talking about wealth?
10 Likes
I spoke about all of it. Horses being treated badly as well. It’s all because of greed.
How much more did I need to say about “horse welfare”?
3 Likes
Please don’t PM me, @aohunter0629. Anything I have to say I’ll say here.
I suppose the owners like yourself who spend ‘hundreds of thousands of dollars a year’ on their hunters don’t ever flip through the USEF magazine they receive? The one that features big winners, medalists, Horse of the Year stuff, feel good articles, and the one that details pages and pages and pages of offenders names, their offence, and their punishment? Are they too busy patting themselves on the back?
Next up, I’ll be accused of being jealous. 
17 Likes
Ha! I don’t have time for this! Enjoy your day 
and life 
2 Likes
@RooTheDay you are the best for putting this together far better than I could.
@aohunter0629, do you have time to address Roo?
9 Likes
Already did. Have a good day.
2 Likes
