Not in the Pony Club I was in, back in the day when we had to do cross country on dinosaurs.
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Yes. Dressage also. As long as it’s USEF and not FEI. But some people have a perception that dressage and eventing have different rules than HJ maybe because hunters don’t do FEI.
During the webinar after the EHV outbreak in Thermal in 2022, the question was raised if the use of dex as a calming agent might be contributing to the problem as it’s an immune suppressant. There was a sigh and a pause and then the vet on the panel said that nearly all of the EHV cases at Thermal that year were amongst horses showing in hunters (including pony hunters). Some of that is probably because jumpers generally don’t need calming. Some of it is because hunters stand around together more. But some of it may be that jumpers are FEI (*).
(*) See my response/attempt at clarification two posts down. "What I meant was that since some jumper riders do show FEI, jumper riders in general (and their trainers) might be more likely to follow, or partially follow, some of the FEI medication rules.’
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Only a small percentage of the jumpers at most shows in this country are in the FEI classes.
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I should have been clearer. What I meant was that since some jumper riders do show FEI, jumper riders in general (and their trainers) might be more likely to follow, or partially follow, some of the FEI medication rules.
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you appear to be the one who is righteously indignant.
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Isn’t chin to chest illegal in h/j ?
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That seems to be unlikely to be too much of a factor in spread given the major EHV outbreaks at European shows.
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Nope, no righteous indignation here! Just calling out BS when it gets slung unnecessarily!
You do you, even if what you type is wrong and twisted. Hurts, doesn’t it? 
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An excellent point.
Though it still leaves open why hunters were so disproportionately represented in the EVH cases at Thermal that year. Too small of a sample size? Bad luck? What horses they were stabled next to? Or is there something different about horse management and/or stabling at European shows?
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I think that one can read through these posts, and the number of people who have absolutely no idea what is legal or illegal to understand what a big problem it is. I do think that if owners were held accountable then there would be more pressure on trainers to not hide what horses were on with those non itemized board bills that are popular.
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I think any comparisons to positives in h/j vs eventers is relatively pointless. I mean I could say the same about combined driving. I’ve seen plenty of eventers show up on the list but I’ve never seen a driver. But I’m not taking that as evidence that drivers are better horseman, but rather the number of driving horses tested pales in comparison to eventers. And eventers pale in comparison to hunters. EVERYTHING pales in comparison to hunters. More shows, more horses, more membership. More tests.
What I will say is that a subjective sport that is asking a prey animal to consistently go around with little to no reactivity is probably ripe for abuse (hunters, a variety of pleasure type classes, western pleasure and so on). When you make it the biggest sport under the USEF umbrella it’s a “you do the math” moment.
But I’m sorry, I’ve seen no shortage of poor horseman, cringe worthy riding and bad decisions across every discipline out there. The decline of good teaching and foundational horsemanship isn’t limited to just one slice of competition (or country, to hear my EU friends talk). If it seems like there’s more in h/j land it’s because there’s just more everything. Spotting it is like giving yourself a pat on the back for spotting a white car on the road.
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isn’t that the truth. I’ve seen cutters loped down for so long, sooo long, they are heaving and soaked to the bone and gassed. But hey, we didn’t longe them! I’ve seen snaffles snatching all the way through a baby’s mouth in a warm up pen at an NSBA event, but hey we didn’t gallop or break him from a starting gate. I haven’t seen a WP horse execute a rotational fall over their own nose yet, like even baby-level eventers can if going too fast/too poorly. So what? So. Freaking. What?
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I think that the pressure must be put on the owners to bear responsibility as well. They need to ask, observe and know what happens to their animals !
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I had a friend who worked at a top cutting & RCH barn years ago. She quit after months of endlessly loping horses in mind-numbing circles before the trainer deigned to touch them.
The trainer at that same barn sat on a blowing, sweaty and exhausted 14 HH NSBA 2 year old, lecturing all us nincompoops about the evils of racing 2 year old Thoroughbreds… while constantly shifting his heavy saddle back and forth with his 200+ pound butt in it on that miserably uncomfortable little horse.
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I’m going to use this a a jumping off place for a couple things I feel like people don’t consider when I’m reading this thread. I wish I could respond with solutions instead, but I can’t.
First thing is, there isn’t really a home. When I was showing regularly we were at a horse show around 40 weeks a year. That doesn’t mean the same horses are showing every week, but they are at the horse show. Maintenance, vaccines, every vet and health thing that happens to a horse in the general course of a year, they tend to happen at a horse show. Particularly during long circuits. The horse lives at a horse show; the kid learns at a horse show, whatever it is we are talking about them learning.
The other point, conversely, is that at the winter circuits at least, a large number of horses are stabled off grounds if the trainer/owner has enough money to buy or rent a facility. You cannot police off property the same way as you can police on property, and there isn’t enough room for everyone to be required to be on property at the same time.
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Perhaps that’s because the Vets don’t agree that teaching juniors to give IM or IV injections is a fine thing to do. “A very knowledgeable person” who is not a Vet has no business teaching juniors, or anyone else, to inject horses. There are far too many unqualified people injecting horses as it is.
As @Ghazzu mentioned, if something goes wrong there can be serious ramifications for the life and health of the horse, and a refusal to pay out by the insurance company when injections are given by anyone who isn’t a Vet, or supervised by one.
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I thought there was another time he wasn’t allowed to show for a couple of months? I could be mistaken for another top rider. It was within the last couple of years. Thank you - I’ll check out the link later when I have more time.
ETA: I found this screen shot…
I absolutely admire his ability to ride various types - impressive he can go from hunter ring to jumper ring and win! This is not to shame by any means, just saying people at the top have been caught. Even for dex…no matter the infraction or drug. Obviously there’s a huge difference between too much of a legal substance and say, gasoline water (
)
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I don’t believe there’s a formal rule on it? Go to showgroundslive and watch the video - it’s quite bad. Only disqualified for the use of “equipment” (draw reins) in the class, per the announcer.
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You’re absolutely right, but I guess my point is teaching juniors to give injections is a borderline thing to do anyway and I don’t think doing it at a horse show where you are not 100% in control of the environment is a good idea.
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What video?
I did not follow the initials mentioned in the previous post on the subject.
