Diann Langer’s abuse article

[DMK]

@endlessclimb

I’m sure with 50 horses there are vets that would be glad to show up for a nightly medicating round. Easy money.

Oh, I’d take that action.

Just a few thoughts in no particular order: shortage of vets, vets being asked to give shots to an animal they have no client relationship with. 50 horses? At a winter circuit? Missing the time cutoff because it is notandneverwouldbejust 50 horses? Being pulled away from emergency call because, again, not 50 horses.

easy money said no one ever.

This is your hill, you can die on it, but not only would it not stop illegal and unethical behavior, it wouldn’t even pump the brakes on it. It would be insanely expensive and inefficient to police though.

[fivestrideline]

@DMK

not only would it not stop illegal and unethical behavior, it wouldn’t even pump the brakes on it. It would be insanely expensive and inefficient to police though.

I do agree with this. It is very easy to just tuck the needles in a water bottle and toss them in the truck. Shows don’t have the staff or the budget to have eyes on everyone all the time… Maybe if cameras were in every corner, but then someone has to watch the footage! The infrastructure just isn’t there at most venues. Yet.

I’m just not sure that banning needles at shows is an effective route to take to cut down on illegal drugging. I’m pretty sure it would only punish those who are following the rules and know how to properly inject (IM or IV) their own animals, while doing very little to stop the unethical trainer from doping Suzie’s long stirrup horse so she can get a ribbon.

[kenyarider]

No one seems to be talking about the source of these problems, lack of trainer professionalism (as in certification to even do the job); and that the industry of hunters and to a lessor degree equitation are the problems. I know, I know there are jumpers who are ill treated but the majority of these acts appear to be directly related to hunters and eq. Maybe we need to just focus on how to fix that instead of arguing about who has what needles and who can or can’t give IV injections. We could even adopt the FEI rules. Yes, there are instances of drugging at the FEI level, but it’s a step in the right direction. And we could follow the example of many European nations that require trainer certification and some rider qualifications to show at all. Just thinking this thread has wandered a long ways from Langer’s opinion piece.

[Demerara_Stables]

Trainer certification doesn’t fix greed.

At the end of the day, the horses are getting illegally drugged so the trainers can have clients winning more so they can get more, richer clients, and they can sell the winning horses for more money. Also so the clients can win ribbons faster instead of learning to ride, which takes longer.

Certification is a fine goal to fix other issues but it’s not going to fix drugging.

[kenyarider]

You think so? I disagree. If you know that if you have a drug sanction, your license to work is removed and you have to do more than just wait out your suspension by avoiding shows, it might. Licensing does work for many professions from CPS to lawyers to hair dressers. Besides, at this point, it sure can’t hurt. Something has to be done and having an unregulated industry of professionals IS NOT working.

[Djones]

Meanwhile in the land of top tier barrel horses. This is from the sale ad for a young mare. The ad specifies she runs best on “sedavet” (aka Setivet). Because the seller has a robust following, the horse was listed this am, 5 figures and sale is already pending.

The mention of the sedative kicked off a very open and frank conversation about which one is best, when. I mean I knew they use Lasix like I drink box wine, but the serious stuff was new to me.

[hillary_again]

I am curious about the list of prohibited substances that will go into affect (posted here already).

What is injectable formaldehyde being used for? Liquid nitrogen?

If USEF/USHJA are asking us to be observant and “see something, say…”, it might be helpful to education some of us on what we might be observing. Really, yes, I am that ignorant. I think I understand the uses of most of that list, but those two puzzle me.

[ThreeWishes]

My goodness. That’s gross. I had no idea people used Setivet to compete.

[endlessclimb]

My hill to die on is if your horse needs daily injections of a painkiller to compete, you really need to rethink your priorities.

This is insane.

[Demerara_Stables]

@kenyarider

You think so? I disagree. If you know that if you have a drug sanction, your license to work is removed and you have to do more than just wait out your suspension by avoiding shows, it might. Licensing does work for many professions from CPS to lawyers to hair dressers. Besides, at this point, it sure can’t hurt. Something has to be done and having an unregulated industry of professionals IS NOT working.

That’s fair. I was thinking of licensing more as something that’s done on the front end as education on why you shouldn’t drug. Revoking a license might be a good motivator to not drug, but if that’s the threat, why not just increase the length of time for suspensions?

[MHM]

I’m not at all familiar with the rules for barrel horses.

Are they allowed to show on those things? Or are they just openly discussing breaking the rules?

[Djones]

I don’t know.

[aohunter0629]

They are. From what I understand .5cc is allowed per the rules.

[skydy]

Drugging is not the only issue. Andy Kocher was banned for 10 years by the FEI and is now apparently showing at unrated shows and giving “clinics”. He has no license to lose. Avoiding FEI or USEF shows is an easy out for abusers, those that drug horses, those that abuse horses in more painful physical ways, and those who are just incompetent.

USEF needs to ban more people for life, but that won’t stop those people from making a living at unrated shows.

Thankfully the FEI and USEF have some rules. Greedy trainers aren’t always found at rated shows. Requiring a license for all “trainers” will never happen in the U.S. but at least there’s a path forward for the FEI and USEF to keep its members in line. Unfortunately those banned by USEF will appear at unrated shows where there’s no testing, no TDs or Stewards, and no Safe Sport enforcement.

[Ghazzu]

The other “fun” thing about romifidine (Sedivet) is that it is not currently available commercially in the US, so it’s all compounded.

[OverandOnward]

@skydy

USEF needs to ban more people for life, but that won’t stop those people from making a living at unrated shows.

But … from what I know of unrated shows … this is not nearly the $$$ for a trainer that rated shows can be.

Again with not letting the perfect interrupt the good. A professional bumped down from rated shows that earn a very decent living, to unrated shows with a more spare income (depending on circumstances, of course), might be a step toward that person exiting the professional horse world.

An exit that might be what most needs to happen. Based on their ethical stance toward horse showing, they need a different career without horses – or at least some of us think so.

[skydy]

I agree, but unfortunately many of those people continue to make money and train horses, apparently enough money to keep them at it. Valliere being a good example.

[Paint_Party]

@MHM

I’m not at all familiar with the rules for barrel horses.

Are they allowed to show on those things? Or are they just openly discussing breaking the rules?

Disclaimer: I am not now, nor have I ever been, an earnest competitor in barrel racing.

From what I’ve come to understand from my barrel racing neighbors, AQHA and I think the pro rodeo association have rules regarding medication/drugging. But there are so many other organizations, clubs and annual events that have zero drug policy while awarding many thousands of dollars to the winners. Sedatives (tranquilizers?) in low doses supposedly help keep some barrel horses sane so they don’t come unglued anticipating their runs. Yet supposedly it doesn’t slow their pace or affect their agility. Supposedly.

[OverandOnward]

Fwiw it is worth, all that said … some of the bad actors that were booted from TWH Big Lick showing switched over to practing many of the same abuses in twh-related gaited breed showing.

The root of the problem is one that some are hesitatant to acknowledge … what do we want, what do we reward, in horse showing? Why do we show? What is the most important thing to take home from a show?

That’s everyone involved in horse showing. Top to bottom, bottom to top.

We’d all like to point accountability away from ourselves. But bottom line, change has to come from the grassroots. The choices ordinary showers make. Choices that winning showers make.

Especially when those at the top of the governing heirarchy demonstrate such reluctance to let go of a broken system that is nonetheless rewarding them.

[OverandOnward]

@skydy

I agree, but unfortunately many of those people continue to make money and train horses, apparently enough money to keep them at it. Valliere being a good example.

Exactly.

The core of change has to come from those who foot the bill, and who make the choices that enrich Valliere and other abusers. Who in spite of their known abuses, they win, and they train winners, human and equine.

That can’t be the way. But we all know that many competitors do opt for that way, knowing better, but wanting what they want, even more.

That is the cultural, attitudinal, indoctrinal change that needs to be instilled. Bottom to top. Top to bottom.