I would suppose that without the hind legs splitting (so to speak) around the front leg as the hind legs extend forward interference would occur.
Keep in mind, too, that standards are re-written to reflect the modern dog currently competing. So footfall could have been adjusted to reflect what was winning.
Sheilah
[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7963738]
There is a lot of misinformation on this thread. A schutzhund/IPO title is required by the SV in order to breed, not to register. A ScH III is not the required level of title for breeding in the SV. That would be a ScH I. Most often the males have a higher title, simply because they can breed and continue to compete and females need time off to breed and raise a litter. So it is very common to see a dam with a ScH I and the sire with a ScH III.
You can still breed without titles, and some people do. Those litters just won’t be recognized by the SV. Schutzhund/IPO is a sport title, not a working title. Dingo was a WGSL (West German Showline, not working lines). I have never heard he was a working dog. And, to make it even more confusing, “working lines” are not the same as “working dogs”. A working dog is a police dog, a guide dog, etc. A dog that works. Working lines are those bloodlines that are most often found in working GSDs, especially those lines found in dogs doing LE work. But a dog from working lines doesn’t equate to a dog that works.
Pacing is a fault in the GSD, regardless of venue. The “flying trot” is not a pace or an amble. That is just the term show people use to describe the look of the gaiting dog in the show ring. A flashy flying trot might be beloved of the audience and more likely to be put up by a judge, which is a shame. That high headed, extreme movement hides a lot of faults (not the least of which is a lack of balance).
Dingo came from well known and heavily used WGSL. You would be hard pressed to find a WGSL dog that doesn’t carry the same lines.
You can find a good, drivey dog in ALL the lines. Some lines will have a higher percentage than others, but that isn’t the same thing as not finding them at all in some lines. Not all working lines are spazzed out bite cases waiting to happen. Not all American Showlines are crippled. Not all WGSL are banana-backed freaks.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]
It was confusing what I said, I meant to say licensed as in approved to breed not register. Thank you for also pointing out their original purpose, (shepherd), and that they were not bred as protection dogs, their courage was valued but they were not purpose bred as protection dogs such as the Dobermans were.
I think the German Shepherd Dogs shown in American shows these days (big shows on TV, e.g., Westminster) look totally deformed, but I have never seen one pace or amble; they always trot. They look lame and ugly doing it, but it is a diagonal gait.
P.S. I guess I’m permitted to post here even though I’m not a guy!
Yes they do Anonymoose, I cry when I see those dogs. BTW, I don’t think gender bias exists here as I am not a guy either. 
[QUOTE=S1969;7963770]
I believe it’s normal for all dogs that overreach. This is what the GSD standard says about it; I was going to post it earlier in response to your post but forgot.
The hindquarters deliver, through the back, a powerful forward thrust which slightly lifts the whole animal and drives the body forward. Reaching far under, and passing the imprint left by the front foot, the hind foot takes hold of the ground; then hock, stifle and upper thigh come into play and sweep back, the stroke of the hind leg finishing with the foot still close to the ground in a smooth follow-through. The overreach of the hindquarter usually necessitates one hind foot passing outside and the other hind foot passing inside the track of the forefeet, and such action is not faulty unless the locomotion is crabwise with the dogs body sideways out of the normal straight line.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7963787]I am NOT an expert. But I have spent more than 50 years living with the breed. The GSD is a trotting dog. They were “created” to be able to move as efficiently as possible over long distances, for long periods of time. Unlike Border Collies (for instance), who move between gaits as they work, the GSD was meant to move in a wearing pattern behind the flock and to maintain a boundary in the graze. Like an endurance horse who spends most of their time in a trot, so does the GSD as it works. My own personal take away from the history of the breed is that although it was meant to be a utilitarian worker with the courage to defend the herder and the flock if needed, it’s primary role was as a sheepdog moving huge herds. That was first and foremost.
I don’t know if the footfall was the natural pattern because it was indicative of the most efficient movement, or if the show ring bastardized it as they did the trot.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the replies/insights!!
My GSD and other GSDs are the only dogs I’ve seen do it… but I know GSDs also ‘over track’ – so I guess it makes sense, where else would the legs go? But I would figure if they over tracked it would be both to the outside or both to the inside… seems so strange to see it be an uneven side.
my four mutts trot like a horse…
No, I think they would typically be one in, one out, otherwise it would make them wide behind. My breed is expected to overreach as well, and I think it would be bizarre to see both back legs track to the outside.
Here are two fascinating photos of me and my dog; obviously teh same day, not sure if they are a few minutes apart or only seconds apart. In one his hind is to the outside; in the other it’s to the inside. https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10006482_635542489844457_1603803421_n.jpg?oh=ee0374a5a58a6ec2187ce4fa09e1c8f4&oe=552E1FF9
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1554379_635542519844454_1138338156_n.jpg?oh=01991ee01b67895a3a1b42a7e93331dc&oe=55339F4D&gda=1433357737_d36e4abcbc70c3a0bfb79104fc84159b
[QUOTE=S1969;7963770]
I believe it’s normal for all dogs that overreach. This is what the GSD standard says about it; I was going to post it earlier in response to your post but forgot.
The hindquarters deliver, through the back, a powerful forward thrust which slightly lifts the whole animal and drives the body forward. Reaching far under, and passing the imprint left by the front foot, the hind foot takes hold of the ground; then hock, stifle and upper thigh come into play and sweep back, the stroke of the hind leg finishing with the foot still close to the ground in a smooth follow-through. The overreach of the hindquarter usually necessitates one hind foot passing outside and the other hind foot passing inside the track of the forefeet, and such action is not faulty unless the locomotion is crabwise with the dogs body sideways out of the normal straight line.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=IdahoRider;7963787]I am NOT an expert. But I have spent more than 50 years living with the breed. The GSD is a trotting dog. They were “created” to be able to move as efficiently as possible over long distances, for long periods of time. Unlike Border Collies (for instance), who move between gaits as they work, the GSD was meant to move in a wearing pattern behind the flock and to maintain a boundary in the graze. Like an endurance horse who spends most of their time in a trot, so does the GSD as it works. My own personal take away from the history of the breed is that although it was meant to be a utilitarian worker with the courage to defend the herder and the flock if needed, it’s primary role was as a sheepdog moving huge herds. That was first and foremost.
I don’t know if the footfall was the natural pattern because it was indicative of the most efficient movement, or if the show ring bastardized it as they did the trot.
Sheilah[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=S1969;7964256]No, I think they would typically be one in, one out, otherwise it would make them wide behind. My breed is expected to overreach as well, and I think it would be bizarre to see both back legs track to the outside.
Here are two fascinating photos of me and my dog; obviously teh same day, not sure if they are a few minutes apart or only seconds apart. In one his hind is to the outside; in the other it’s to the inside. https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10006482_635542489844457_1603803421_n.jpg?oh=ee0374a5a58a6ec2187ce4fa09e1c8f4&oe=552E1FF9
https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/1554379_635542519844454_1138338156_n.jpg?oh=01991ee01b67895a3a1b42a7e93331dc&oe=55339F4D&gda=1433357737_d36e4abcbc70c3a0bfb79104fc84159b[/QUOTE]
But them having a different track than their forelimbs, that wouldn’t harm them over time? genuinely curious. I would imagine that if I ‘ran crooked’ I’d be sore after a while.
I think that if they always had LH outside of LF and RH inside RF and never switched, maybe it would make them crooked. But the pictures of my dog suggests that he switches it, and I would think that a balanced dog could do either, maybe depending on which leg they strike out in trot on first? That said, a dog that wasn’t balanced might be more one-sided, too, to try to even itself out - and cause soreness or other issues over time.
It’s an interesting question - I’ll try to remember to ask my canine chiro vet because she rides too. She’ll probably have noticed it more than other people so I’ll be curious to hear what she says.
[QUOTE=S1969;7964316]
I think that if they always had LH outside of LF and RH inside RF and never switched, maybe it would make them crooked. But the pictures of my dog suggests that he switches it, and I would think that a balanced dog could do either, maybe depending on which leg they strike out in trot on first? That said, a dog that wasn’t balanced might be more one-sided, too, to try to even itself out - and cause soreness or other issues over time.
It’s an interesting question - I’ll try to remember to ask my canine chiro vet because she rides too. She’ll probably have noticed it more than other people so I’ll be curious to hear what she says.[/QUOTE]
id love to hear the answer. i’ll do a study on the family GSD next time i see her :lol:
[QUOTE=Anonymoose;7964001]
I think the German Shepherd Dogs shown in American shows these days (big shows on TV, e.g., Westminster) look totally deformed, but I have never seen one pace or amble; they always trot. They look lame and ugly doing it, but it is a diagonal gait.
P.S. I guess I’m permitted to post here even though I’m not a guy![/QUOTE]
Half dog, half frog. Lots of those dogs are crippled by five.
Not true. The angulation has nothing to do with health. And it certainly doesn’t have anything to do with hip status. Some of the most extreme specialty ring GSDs have hips rated excellent by OFA.
Sheilah
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