Didn't get scammed but sold to one

[sablepatch]

I feel just horrible. I sold a horse on Saturday and she is now back up for sale, on Monday, for double the price being listed as a horse that can be rode by any level rider. Now that made me a little sad but I didn’t think much of it, I sold the horse so I have no say on what they do with her but I worried that they were listing her as beginner safe.

After I began looking at her facebook ad though I recognized her profile picture as somebody months ago had listed a warning about the person I sold my horse to. She looks a bit different in person so I didn’t recognize her and it was several months ago that it was posted. After I googled her name I found several complaints about her. That she often buys horses and then sells them as dead broke beginner horses and that she has scammed people out of money and they accused her of aceing horses to make them appear beginner broke.

Now, normally I would have no problem outing her on the ads and warning all those who may go look at the horse. The problem is she lives, literally, about 6 miles from my house. I feel as though if I were to say anything publically about her she could easily come to my house and harm my other horses. I am also not in the position to take the horse back and I doubt she would sell her to me for the original purchase price. One good thing is the horse I sold her isn’t crazy and would be suitable for a beginner at home being ridden around the pasture or an arena. She has a lot of get up and go and can be spooky when taken out though which is why I listed her as needing an intermediate rider. I’ve also seen the place she is currently at so I know she isn’t going to starve and the lady has no history of animal abuse/neglect charges but that doesn’t make me feel much better.

I guess this is more of a vent than anything as I feel powerless to do anything.

[OverandOnward]

With a little luck your horse may get a good next home. If she’s as gentle as you say, it may turn out ok for her. A higher price tag may attract financially able owners. Fingers crossed for you.

Let your horse go on to that good home, because any interference or even talking behind the lady’s back might prompt her to make a quick sale to the wrong person, just to have the horse gone. Not that you planned to do that.

But once the mare is safely homed, find out all you can about this person and look for any chance to help put a stop to her shenanigans. A horse who ends up in a home that does not understand its behavior is on the first step to a sad future. Too often it is downhill from there. Sometimes something like this is the motivation to action.

[JanM]

This is a good reason to review your security around your farm. Document everything you have involving the horse, the sale, and the seller’s ad, just in case.

[Flash44]

So you sold to a horse flipper. Did you ask her if her intention was to resell the horse? I always ask what the buyer intends to use the horse for, and if they buyer intends on reselling the horse in the next 6 months.

[Ladylexie]

I’m not sure people buying and reselling horses are scammers. People have been doing this for a long time and it is quite acceptable and common. Maybe I missed it, but, did you have a signed agreement that she would not be resold?

[Ambitious_Kate]

Just because she’s a horse flipper, why does that mean she would intentionally hurt your horses and you need better farm security? I’m not sure how you made that leap.

People may not like the idea of horse ‘flipping’ because we all feel so responsible for the kind of place a horse of ours ends up, and it can go so wrong for a horse so quickly, but it isn’t always bad. I wouldn’t like to see a horse I sold re-marketed as something he wasn’t, but I guess its a good reason to remind yourself to do your due diligence and try to research folks a little. It sounds to me like the horse will do well and yes, its not your horse any more, is it.

[brody]

You could just post something like. “oh I hope Bella finds a great home - I was sad when it was time for me to sell her”

[toady123]

I agree this is not a scam. It’s a flip. Some would find it unsavory, but it most certainly does happen. It doesn’t sound like the horse is in immediate danger, however I see your concern - if she is bought by someone under false pretenses and is unsuitable as a result she could end up in a bad spot.

If you can’t afford to buy her back, then there is really nothing you can do. Given her close proximity it’s possible she will be sold locally, and you might have luck reaching out to a new owner down the line.

I would not beat yourself up too much. You could have asked all the questions you wanted - she would have found a good answer for them all.

[sablepatch]

I would have 0 issues if she was representing her honestly and simply flipping her. I’ve bought several horses with the intention to sell so I honestly have no problem with it as long as you take care of the horse while its in your possession.

She lies about the horses she sells, has scammed people out of their money, and has drugged horses to make the sale. When you search her name into google you get several reports on her and people have gotten seriously hurt on horses she has sold as beginner broke.

I didn’t ask her the intentions she had for the horse because I really am a firm believer in if you sell it you have no control or say in that horses life anymore. I’m just upset that she went to such a dishonest person, not that the person is reselling her. I do not think this person will randomly come to my farm and harm my horses, however if I was to start telling people about her history people can act crazy. Which is why she lives a little to close for comfort for me to warn people about her publically.

And toady123 you’re right that I’m not worried about her current care, I worry she will be sold as a beginner broke horse to some kid and then not live up to those expectations and later end up in a bad stop.

Thank you guys for letting me vent!

[anon38350891]

I bought my current horse from a horse flipper, and while he was not exactly as represented, he is the perfect horse for me. I just got some training help and ramped down my expectations a little. Very happy with the outcome. I think you may be worrying too much. Buyers are responsible for taking a good hard look. Hope for the best. The horse world is gossipy and nasty enough that decent people get awful things said about them so the buzz you’ve heard may be less than reliable.

[GraceLikeRain]

What about making a comment like “I adore this mare and was sad that life circumstances prevented me from keeping her. If her new buyer wants any old pictures, just let me know!” That keeps it casual and upbeat but lets a potential buyer know that you are there.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;8257206]
What about making a comment like “I adore this mare and was sad that life circumstances prevented me from keeping her. If her new buyer wants any old pictures, just let me know!” That keeps it casual and upbeat but lets a potential buyer know that you are there.[/QUOTE]

I agree… maybe let the person you sold her to know you’d love to stay in contact… XYZ… ETC

[Guilherme]

There are times when you should not miss a good opportunity to say nothing. You did nothing wrong when you sold the horse; she did nothing wrong in buying the horse. How the markets the horse is her business. Should you enter her business you run the risk of having your name associated with hers. If you say something she finds offensive you could get sued for defamation. This is true even if she doesn’t engage in vandalism.

Let it go.

G.

[red_mares]

You no longer own the horse.

How and when the new owner chooses to sell the horse is not your concern.

[Lady_Eboshi]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8257603]
There are times when you should not miss a good opportunity to say nothing. You did nothing wrong when you sold the horse; she did nothing wrong in buying the horse. How the markets the horse is her business. Should you enter her business you run the risk of having your name associated with hers. If you say something she finds offensive you could get sued for defamation. This is true even if she doesn’t engage in vandalism.

Let it go.

G.[/QUOTE]

THIS^. For horse traders, all in a day’s work.

You sold to a dealer, period. That’s completely OK. If more people DID that, in fact, there would be a lot fewer dreadful mismatches out there. The antics or ethics of people downstream from there are none of your business unless you like unnecessary drama sticking to you like dog-doo.

You’re well out of it. Keep it that way.

[Foxtrot_s]

Between Saturday and Monday the horse doubled in price…that would hurt.

It happened tome once, too, and there was nothing I could do - I did not realize she would peddle the horse immediately. Actually, the horse did not sell, was taken to California as a prospect, had to bring it back and sold eventually to a young rider and became the Intermediaire Champ locally, so in the end I did not feel bad…but just the thought frosted me.

[o0rxkxrox0o]

I’m pretty sure the OP made it clear that her issue is not with with the horse flipping, it’s with the fact that the horse is now listed as beginner safe, and supposedly the buyer has drugged horses in the past to make them appear calmer as well.

No matter how you feel about the horse flipping, drugging and listing horses as being appropriate for a skill level that they’re not is kind of a big deal ethically.

[gbean]

I have been scammed before. Not fun and really damaging to the industry and people wishing to be more involved in horses. It was on the purchase of my first horse a few years out of college.

My trainer brought him to the barn for me to trial. She had sold many horses from the owner before, so they allowed her to take him off-site for the trial. Trainer said he was green, but we could work with him and do professional training rides. I trusted her at the time and agreed to buy him. She said that it was easier if she bought the horse from the owner and then sold him to me - would just make the transactions easier. I asked if I could speak directly to the seller to negotiate a better price, but my trainer said no, she would do the talking and ‘this is how a lot of the industry does it.’ I was uncertain about it, but she pressured me, saying there were other people interested, so if I wanted him, I had to buy him quickly. It was my first horse purchase ever. My parents aren’t horse people, and my trainer was really the only one I thought would provide good guidance. I had been out of the horse world for a little while before this and trusted her judgement on his ability/price. I paid 14k + 15% commission to my trainer.

Well, even though I tried him out and he was jumping fine during the trial - the horse ended up being a huge stopper. I mean - he stopped at ground poles stopper. I now believe there was some drugging involved before the trial. Due to some major disagreement between her and I on training and care for my horse, I left that trainer and moved to a different barn. The new barn was a much higher quality of training, care, and had much more exposure to higher level professionals. I wish I had started out here. My new trainer tried to work with him, but even she grew hesitant to ride him with his dirty stops - every day it was a different fence and sometimes you thought you had it and he would throw his feet down in mid-air before the fence. She suggested that I sell him, get as much as I could out of him, but accept it as a loss and move on to another horse that was braver. She knew the previous owner and called to ask her about the price on him when he was sold to me. The original owner said “I would have never sold him for that. I had no idea [old trainer] did that.” My new trainer quoted him at worth no more that $7k on a good day.

My first trainer had sold him through the buyer for double his actual price and still had the gall to charge me commission. I will never have the same ability to trust anyone - even my trainer who is supposed to be working for you - when dealing in the horse industry.

Moral of the story: Scammers are out there. When selling/buying, talk to buyer/owner directly. If it seems fishy, walk away - there will be another.

[arapaloosa_lady]

Are you reading actual court cases about her or internet gossip? If you’re buying/selling a ton of inexpensive horses, like a dealer, you’re going to get disgruntled customers. I take all reviews I read on the internet with a grain of salt.

[bip]

[QUOTE=o0rxkxrox0o;8258966]
I’m pretty sure the OP made it clear that her issue is not with with the horse flipping, it’s with the fact that the horse is now listed as beginner safe, and supposedly the buyer has drugged horses in the past to make them appear calmer as well.

No matter how you feel about the horse flipping, drugging and listing horses as being appropriate for a skill level that they’re not is kind of a big deal ethically.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I don’t know why people are having such a hard time reading the OP and her subsequent clarification. I would be upset too.