Diesel versus Gas truck - Need some input

So I have a 2 horse gooseneck with LQ’s that I figure weighs in in around 11,000 lbs loaded. I haul about once a month during the show season but it is typically long distance, in excess of 1000 miles round trip.

At the moment I have a diesel and I do love the power and gas mileage, but I don’t like the increased maintenance costs associated with it. I am prepared to purchase new but I am having trouble justifying the added purchase cost and maintenance on the diesel. My load is well within the capacities of the gas, but am I really going to regret giving up that power?

I would love input on what everyone is hauling with, as well as what you are getting for gas mileage. I should probably note that I am looking at a 1 ton dually, I would really prefer a Chevy but with the price on the Ram’s they are coming in a close second.

I would stay with diesel for that kind of towing distance, especially since your location states “in the mountains”. I think you will be VERY disappointed with a gas engine’s performance while towing in mountainous terrain.

We have a 2009 GMC Duramax 2500 4WD short bed, crew cab. Empty ~16MPG, but better on long empty interstate trips. Loaded has never gone below 11MPG, have towed up to 14,750#.

Our 2010 Dodge Megacab, dually, 4WD gets about the same. The MPG does drop to ~8mpg when towing the 19,500lb toyhauler camper that is 13’6" tall, 8’6" wide and 43’ long, so significant “wind resistance”. But “lighter” loads usually get 11-12mpg.

I like the “comfort features” of the GMC better - it is a Denali package. Dodge has gotten much better over the years in upgrading their interiors, though. Our current 2010 model is miles above the '99 and 2004 models we had previously.

I love, love love my Chevy 2500 LS, though my LQ is mini so my trailer is far lighter. The one thing I didn’t love is the amount of brakes coming down a mountain when there was the inevitable accident on the only highway in and out of a show. I would have loved to have air brakes. My truck did great in the mountains, so I wouldn’t expect yours to have much trouble, but the one mountain show a year I go to I really would love to have diesel… so I say go diesel. :slight_smile:

I tow with a one ton single rear wheel GMC with the 8.1 engine. It’s a beastly monster, that gets 10mpg whether it’s cruising down the highway at 80mph, or towing a heavy trailer through mountains.

But I do local trailering only, and got a STEAL of a deal on it two years ago when the gas prices were skyrocketing and no one could afford to drive it anymore. :lol: My truck is not my main vehicle, so for my limited trailering, I did not care about the mpgs.

A gas vehicle would be perfectly capable of your loads.

That being said, run the numbers. Gas is currently significantly cheaper than diesel, but I would not count on it staying there. Assuming they go back up to the same price, how much money would you be saving on your long distance trips if you’re looking at a diesel getting in the 20 range, and a gas getting in the 12-15 range? Enough to cover the difference in initial purchase price, as well as the maintenance?

It may truly come down to a $$$ game.

All my diesels have had VASTLY lower maintenance costs than the gassers, plus the fuel savings & it’s also my daily driver to work, as I can’t afford two vehicles; especially with a load that size, mtns added, I would stay with the diesel. Climbing up the passes in SW VA or over to TN, it is invaluable when that turbo kicks in on the SuperDuty & we roll right past the poor gassers panting up the grade!

Am curious why your maintenance costs are so high – is it a Chrysler (LOL, kidding! mostly…)? All makes & models have peak reliability years, as well as tradeoffs, so perhaps you just need a diesel that has been better maintained or is from a better design year?

Ok let’s see if I can catch all the questions, my apologies if I miss you. I live in Wyoming so yes in the mountains. I think I have gotten used to the passes so I really don’t think much of them :slight_smile: For the most part I am doing highway driving, and regardless of the vehicle I tend to be pretty conservative over the passes when hauling. But, I have gotten used to the diesel so I am sure I take that for granted as well!

My current truck has fairly high mileage, I just turned over 200,000. I know for a diesel that isn’t much but the maintenance kicks in. I bought the truck used (it’s a Chevy) and it seems like every time I go into the shop it’s in the thousands. This is why I am going with new, ideally less maintenance and a known history on the truck.

Prior to this truck I have only had gas and I have never had the problems/expense that I have seen with the diesel. I guess I am just a little gun shy.

This would not be a daily driver for me either, so I think you folks are right that part of the decision needs to be to take a close look at the costs versus savings between the two. I just don’t know what to expect as far as gas mileage. My old 2002 Ford V10 pulled this trailer just fine at about 8mpg. Is that a reasonable figure to go by with the newer engines? My current diesel gets about 12 mpg.

Thanks for all the feedback, this is a HUGE help! Keep it coming!

Some “lower-cost” issues of diesels vs. gas that I know of…

Diesel engines allow you to have an engine or transmission brake, which makes a HUGE difference in how fast you go through brakes compared to a gas engine.

If you break down the cost to drive per mile, this is what you are looking at MPG-wise:
Gas at $2.43/gal (Nat’l avg) and 8 mpg = $0.30 per mile to drive a gas truck
Diesel at $2.83/gal (Nat’l avg) and 12 mpg = $0.24 per mile to drive a diesel truck

So a 1000-mile trip in a gas truck would cost you $60 more in fuel than it would in a diesel truck.

But is the 8mpg a reasonable figure for the gas engine?

I think maintenance costs with diesel are hit or miss. If they hit they are really big numbers, especially with modern diesel pickups that have massive and complicated engines wedged into the engine bays. So much to go wrong and so much labor to fix any of it.

You might be getting ripped off a bit on the service. So few diesel owners know about what’s in there, that I suspect there is very little to police the costs of a sloppy or unscrupulous mechanic.

At 200k the diesel engine itself is probably a long way from dead but the stuff bolted onto it can begin to require replacement. Myself, I was disappointed to learn that my Ford 6.4 diesel will need all new pulleys, tensioners, and belts every 60k miles. It was $200 worth of parts and would have doubled or tripled in cost to have a shop do it. Radiators sometimes go and injectors can require work. Those quickly exceed $1000 with book rate labor. Again these bills can add up.

It’s very hard to get a good read on which diesel engines are built to be most reliable and serviceable. Most knowledgeable diesel owners are practically religious in their choice of truck and are either too biased or inexperienced with anything else. If you can, find a local diesel specialist shop and get their thoughts. Not only will you avoid the lemons, you may find that their shop is a much better deal for service than your current shop.

The trouble with a gasser is you need to get it for a good price - you can get washed in depreciation if you pay too much up front. But of course you will pay at the pump. Right now regular fuel is $2.50/gal, and diesel is $3.30, so 8mpg with gas vs. 12mpg with diesel actually costs equal in fuel. It probably won’t stay that way forever, but right now the diesel is the short term and long term loser.

Since you’re “in the mountains” it’s safe to say you’ll notice the loss in torque going to a gasser. Now maybe you drive conservatively and never put the foot to the floor in your diesel, but if you do you’ll feel a difference accelerating up a hill with the gas engine. But I don’t think it will be a big deal - just 12 years ago the diesel engines were putting out torque that the big gasser can do today, and back those diesels were considered more than adequate with these trailer weights.

[QUOTE=HMF;8061642]
But is the 8mpg a reasonable figure for the gas engine?[/QUOTE]

I’m out of my depth here discussing trucks, but I do know the F250 V-10’s are notorious gas hogs. I’m not sure how they compare to other gas engines. I just got a 2001 Super Duty V-10 last summer, and I love it. It is in really good shape and I got a great deal. It’s more than capable of the limited hauling I do, but I love the peace of mind. I see a lot of people wishing Ford still did the V-10’s.

For your situation, I’d probably stick with diesel. (I’d choose Ford, but that’s just my personal preference).

[QUOTE=DHCarrotfeeder;8061644]
…Right now regular fuel is $2.50/gal, and diesel is $3.30, so 8mpg with gas vs. 12mpg with diesel actually costs equal in fuel. It probably won’t stay that way forever, but right now the diesel is the short term and long term loser…[/QUOTE]

Looks like her average prices in Wyoming are vastly different than the east coast, and a lot closer to the national average. “Rocky Mountain” averages are currently $2.28/gal gas and $2.81/gal diesel.

$2.28/gal at 8 mpg = $0.29 per mile
$2.81/gal at 12 mpg = $0.23 per mile

Not near the same…

[QUOTE=moving to dc;8061789]
Looks like her average prices in Wyoming are vastly different than the east coast, and a lot closer to the national average. “Rocky Mountain” averages are currently $2.28/gal gas and $2.81/gal diesel.

$2.28/gal at 8 mpg = $0.29 per mile
$2.81/gal at 12 mpg = $0.23 per mile

Not near the same…[/QUOTE]

No, but there are many other costs to consider.

Particularly since OP is considering new, you need to factor in an extra $5k (on average), up front, for the diesel engine. It takes a long, long time of once a month trips for an extra $60 in fuel to balance out that initial $5k.

Because of that upfront cost, they also then cost more to insure. (And taxes!) Purchase price aside, diesels are also usually more expensive to insure in general.

Diesel mechanics (good ones!) can be hard to find in certain areas, and when they know they’re good, they charge a premium. OP’s mechanic may be a great one, and is just charging what she feels are higher prices simply because he can. It is not as difficult to find maintenance for a gas engine.

Diesels also like to be worked, they do best with regular use. OP says this is not a daily driver.

It’s definitely not a black or white choice, that’s for sure. :slight_smile: Lots of things to consider when you’re counting up costs, more than just the current 50 cents difference per gallon.

I grew up towing with a big diesel Chevy Suburban. I tow with the aforementioned giant gas truck now because it just fiscally made more sense. With even used diesels being at a premium (thanks to them being a status symbol in my hick town :rolleyes:), it just made more sense, for me, to go with the big gas engine, since it’s not a regularly driven vehicle.

Yes, when I did the math on just the gas comparison the diesel comes out ahead but not by a ton. The difference in purchase price is just under $9000, so roughly $100/month in payments. Interesting comment on the insurance GoForAGallop, I didn’t realize there was such a difference there.

If I factor in cost on an annual basis the gas is more economical, but of course that assumes 8 mpg which I still am not real confident on that figure.

Totally agree with the fact that the diesel will out pull the gas up the hills all day long, it’s just so hard to decide what that is worth. If I end up with the gas I will just have to remind myself of the savings everytime I creep up the passes, put on some good music and relax.

I do have a great diesel mechanic and he is a friend, but unfortunately I no longer live near enough to him to depend on him for the regular maintenance. Of course he thinks I should get a diesel but he understands my dilemma.

If these trucks weren’t so expensive it would be a much easier decision to make.

[QUOTE=HMF;8061852]
Yes, when I did the math on just the gas comparison the diesel comes out ahead but not by a ton. The difference in purchase price is just under $9000, so roughly $100/month in payments. Interesting comment on the insurance GoForAGallop, I didn’t realize there was such a difference there.

If I factor in cost on an annual basis the gas is more economical, but of course that assumes 8 mpg which I still am not real confident on that figure.

Totally agree with the fact that the diesel will out pull the gas up the hills all day long, it’s just so hard to decide what that is worth. If I end up with the gas I will just have to remind myself of the savings everytime I creep up the passes, put on some good music and relax. [/QUOTE]

I really think you will see better than 8. I have towed some heavy loads with my 3500 8.1, and like I said, I see 10mpg no matter what. I can squeak up to 12mpg unloaded on the highway…downhill. :smiley:

The big trucks aren’t rated, but I’m seeing a lot of 12-14 numbers places like: http://www.autotrader.com/research/article/car-reviews/225869/2015-gmc-sierra-3500hd-new-car-review.jsp and on fuelly, which is where people submit their own fuel tracking numbers.

And let’s not get TOO dramatic on the hills thing. :slight_smile: Like DHCarrotFeeder said above, the gas trucks today have the same torque as the diesel trucks of yesterday. They will make it up just fine. Non-towing, my rig will smoke almost any vehicle off the line, up to and including sports cars driven by boys too big for their britches. :wink: So it really doesn’t struggle on inclines, although you have some bigger mountains than I do! Any chance you have a friend with a big gas truck that you can take for a spin, even if it’s not brand new?

I love a good diesel truck, don’t get me wrong! They just aren’t always the most sensible choice.

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;8061823]
No, but there are many other costs to consider.

Particularly since OP is considering new, you need to factor in an extra $5k (on average), up front, for the diesel engine. It takes a long, long time of once a month trips for an extra $60 in fuel to balance out that initial $5k.

Because of that upfront cost, they also then cost more to insure. (And taxes!) Purchase price aside, diesels are also usually more expensive to insure in general.

Diesel mechanics (good ones!) can be hard to find in certain areas, and when they know they’re good, they charge a premium. OP’s mechanic may be a great one, and is just charging what she feels are higher prices simply because he can. It is not as difficult to find maintenance for a gas engine.

Diesels also like to be worked, they do best with regular use. OP says this is not a daily driver.

It’s definitely not a black or white choice, that’s for sure. :slight_smile: Lots of things to consider when you’re counting up costs, more than just the current 50 cents difference per gallon.

I grew up towing with a big diesel Chevy Suburban. I tow with the aforementioned giant gas truck now because it just fiscally made more sense. With even used diesels being at a premium (thanks to them being a status symbol in my hick town :rolleyes:), it just made more sense, for me, to go with the big gas engine, since it’s not a regularly driven vehicle.[/QUOTE]

It might vary with different insurance companies. My 2009 GMC Duramax was the same price to insure as my 2003 Yukon Denali. No difference… We are able to insure with USAA, though, so we often get prices others cannot get. But I can’t see the price being that different with any other company.

I also don’t pay taxes on any vehicle purchase because I am an Alaska resident and tag all my vehicles in Alaska. Tags are cheap - $100 for 2 years for every vehicle DH & I own (4 total). They all have vanity plates on them. I think Wyoming may also be tax free??? Or I could well be mistaken!

For a few years, my GMC was a daily driver. But other than that, every diesel we have owned since 1999 has pretty much only moved if towing something weighing over 10K, and generally averages 5K miles a year. Or less. Have yet to have a mechanical issue, other than DH burning up the transmission on the '99 Dodge in 2001 with his lead foot, even when loaded. I know there are lots of RV folks out there that rarely use their diesels (think of all the snowbirds with diesel pusher RV’s) and don’t have significant problems. I used to believe the “diesels need to be worked” adage, but I’ve become less and less of a believer over the years.

[QUOTE=moving to dc;8061889]

I also don’t pay taxes on any vehicle purchase because I am an Alaska resident and tag all my vehicles in Alaska. Tags are cheap - $100 for 2 years for every vehicle DH & I own (4 total). They all have vanity plates on them. I think Wyoming may also be tax free??? Or I could well be mistaken![/QUOTE]

No yearly town excise tax? Sigh. Must be nice.

[QUOTE=GoForAGallop;8061867]

I love a good diesel truck, don’t get me wrong! They just aren’t always the most sensible choice.[/QUOTE]

This line says a lot, this is exactly how I am feeling. I do love the diesel but is it really what I NEED to have right now? I wish I had someone here that I could “test drive” their truck, but I don’t know anyone locally that has a truck large enough to haul my trailer.

I drive a V10 Ford at work and keep thinking I need to hook it up and go for a joy ride but if I did that I wouldn’t have a job to pay for the new truck :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=moving to dc;8061889]

I also don’t pay taxes on any vehicle purchase because I am an Alaska resident and tag all my vehicles in Alaska. Tags are cheap - $100 for 2 years for every vehicle DH & I own (4 total). They all have vanity plates on them. I think Wyoming may also be tax free??? Or I could well be mistaken![/QUOTE]

No income tax but we make up for it in sales tax, maybe I need to move to Alaska!

If you’re considering a new diesel… The pollution controls are complex and expensive. You’ll need to add DEF (Diesel exhaust fluid) not a joke… like blinker fluid… and perhaps the DPF (Diesel particulate filter) will need service too.

For a horse hauling truck, I’ve been well pleased with my 8.1 liter gas hog. Pour in the gasoline and go.

hosspuller - What are you getting for mileage and what are you pulling?