Diet for the spooky horse

[Lunabear1988]

This is more just amusing to me rather than looking for advice. Although if people have experiences feeding a horse this type of diet, it never hurts to hear about it. I’ve been riding and owning for 25 years and I haven’t fed this way in a really long time. But I will admit at one point when I was first into horses I did feed like this.

I just purchased a new young horse. He’s a bit of a looker, some might call a bit spooky. He’s sensible about it, easily will go on with encouragement. But he notices everything!

His old owner had him on an ulcer preventative, probiotics and had just started a “calming supplement.” She also had him on oats (3 lbs a day) and Alfalfa pellets. Also alfalfa hay and grass hay.

To me this diet seems like an odd choice! He’s sensitive and she’s obviously a little worried about ulcers. I get that and I agree that with his personality it’s something to be on the watch for. But don’t oats have a pretty decently high NSC? I don’t know if I’d be giving oats to horse like this.

Of course I’m prepared to accept that this is just who he is! I honestly never thought about it until I was making up his food last night for his move to the new barn.

My vet recommended either Triple Crown Senior or the TC balancer once he’s settled. I think I’ll keep the alfalfa pellets but I’m super interested to see how he will do with a more complete feed, lower NSC!

Fingers crossed that this just makes him even better. He already is a pretty cool horse. I am keeping him on some ulcer preventative stuff as he is a sensitive boy but I’m hoping to get him off of the calming supplement and oats.

[MsM]

Once he is more settled in, you could also try reducing the alfalfa. Some horses (I had one) get a fidgety nervous energy on it. I understand that it is good for ulcery types, but it may be worth greatly reducing to see if it is a problem for him.

[Abbie.S]

I think you’ve got things a bit backwards. Feeds with higher NSC content doesn’t necessarily mean the horse becomes more “looky”. It’s not quite the same as giving a kid a ton of candy knowing they’ll be bouncing off the walls in short order. How it affects the horse has everything to do with how and where it’s digested.

Oats get a bad rap. “Nude” or hull-less oats are becoming more popular as people look to move away from the highly processed extruded feeds that have become a mainstay in a lot of horse’s diets. I feed my own horses nude oats - the starch in the grain is processed mostly in the small intestine which means very little of that starch gets to the hindgut, which is where it can throw off gut flora balance and cause digestive issues. So the old owner’s choice to feed oats for a sensitive, ulcer prone horse actually makes very good sense, in addition to plenty of hay with the addition of alfalfa.

[Lunabear1988]

Interesting. My vet was very adamant that she does not want him on oats. I’ve used triple crown senior on multiple horses especially the ulcery types and they’ve done very well. It’s a Beet pulp based feed, with high fat and low NSC. It’s what my vet has always recommended and I’ve had great luck. And I usually do a little bit of alfalfa pellets with it.

How complete are oats as far as vitamins and minerals though? He’s not getting any vitamin supplements or anything it’s straight oats and alfalfa. I’m not up to date on the nutrition profile on oats to know if it’s adequate or not. I know that the alfalfa helps balance the phosphorus and calcium ratio. But that’s all I know.

[Lunabear1988]

@MsM I’ve had mostly good luck with some alfalfa but I did have a thoroughbred that it made him fly through the roof! But overall it’s been pretty good.

I really think his jumpiness is more from the start that he has had under saddle. But I still think it’s going to be interesting to change up his feed a bit.

[Lunabear1988]

She feeds her horses this way because she doesn’t want any soy. Which I understand especially given the breeds that she has (lots of PSSM in those types.)

[caryledee]

He sounds a lot like my last horse. Had him scoped for ulcers at one point and he was clean. I went from feeding him a low NSC feed to a ration balancer and alfalfa pellets and noticed a huge change in him. The alfalfa never seemed to bother him. I began this because I wanted to eliminate soy as I heard it could make some horses spooky, and the RB had no soy. Not sure if it was the soy or just eliminating sugar entirely that made the difference. but he was definitely easier to deal with most of the time once I switched. It is always interesting to see how environment and diet can impact a horse’s overall attitude.

[Abbie.S]

Oats are the most nutrient-balanced of the cereal grains. As far as micro and macro nutrients, they lack a few essential ones and tend to be low in calcium and higher in phosphorus. If they are used as a large portion of a horse’s diet you’d need to add a ration balancer (although the same is true of any particular grain being a large part of a horse’s diet.)

I’ve gotten flamed for saying this here before but I’ll say it again anyway: vets are wonderful for many things but they are not nutritionists. Nutrition makes up for a very, very small portion of the average vet’s education. I do not know nor am I going to speculate on why your vet is so against oats, but if they looked at the nutritional profile of the grain I’m not sure what would cause them to be “very adamant” about not having the horse on them. They are pretty low NSC to begin with.

If I were you, I’d be doing some research for yourself on equine nutrition and the nutritional profile of what you are planning on feeding.

[Lunabear1988]

Yes honestly I don’t pick this guy as having ulcers right now. But I could see him being a little bit prone to them just with his personality. interesting to see if it does change anything.

I’ll keep it in mind about the soy. I’m pretty interested in the TC gold line. Sounds pretty promising.

[Postandrails]

I agree that oats get a bad rap. Alfalfa + Oats + Ration Balancer, along with plenty of grass hay or grazing, is a great simple diet that would suit many horses.

I’ve also known some horses who were spooky on alfalfa.

[Lunabear1988]

Yes that’s what I said… I know that they are higher and phosphorus and so I’m assuming that’s partly why he’s on the Alfalfa. But he’s not on any ration balancer or any type of vitamin supplement. The only supplements he is getting are all ulcer preventatives, probiotics and a calming supplement. I would like him on something just a little bit more complete. Even if that is just adding a Ration balancer.

Everywhere I have read says that oats are around 50% NSC. The number varies a little bit but while it’s not as high as like corn, it’s much higher than any TC feed.

I’m not sure if she’s against oats or if she just thinks there are other things that are better to feed. I know she likes the triple Crown products and like I said I’ve had great luck with that so far. I’m assuming you have not had good luck with triple Crown lol. It always just depends on the horse I guess.

[Lunabear1988]

He’s not an any ration balancer or vitamin/minerals though. It just feels like an incomplete diet to me.

I did have one horse that was awful on Alfalfa so I will keep that in mind if I do end up dropping it or keeping it. I’m just wanting to go pretty slow and changing his diet up at the moment. I always do when moving a horse anyways but with this guy I just want to be extra careful because he is a sensitive type mentally. I guess I will find out if his gut is sensitive too.

[Postandrails]

Yes, you’d need a ration balancer if you were only feeding oats + alfalfa.

[Lunabear1988]

Maybe it’s the Alfalfa. Maybe it’s just his age prior training and just his personality. That’s okay that’s what I was thinking going into this so I’m fine if that’s who he is. But I would rather not have him on a calming supplement if I can help it.

[Equkelly]

I wouldn’t be comfortable giving a horse like that 3lbs of oats personally. I’d agree with your vet, go down to a ration balancer for now and if you can’t keep weight on maybe move up to something like ultium.

I think of it like this. If you have a kid with behavioral problems then there’s probably a bunch of reasons for that. But if you have the kid eat a healthy diet and don’t feed it crap, It won’t solve your issues but it’ll most likely help.

[Abbie.S]

I think that’s wise and reasonable re: not wanting him on calming supplements.

I was never indicating that the previous owner had it all perfect - just that it was pretty reasonable given what she was trying to achieve.

My horses don’t get fed extruded feeds, so I have no opinion on Triple Crown. I do have a lot of experience feeding whole/minimally processed grains and assessing nutrition in horse feeds, hence why I offered the information I did. At the end of the day you own the horse and will do what you feel is best for him; the tone of the initial post simply indicated to me that there was some unecessary judgment towards the previous owner over her feed choices.

[wanderinglemon]

Disclaimer: I am not a nutritionist, but have done a fair amount of educating myself about equine nutrition, including reading several textbooks included in equine nutritionist education.

Oats are comparatively high in NSC versus other feeds on the market. Studies have shown a correlation between diets that are high in NSC and more reactive (eg: spooky) horses. On the other side, a diet high in fat correlates to less reactive horses.

Anecdotally, my horse was on a high oat diet when he was purchased, I switched him to a high fat, low NSC diet, and his spookiness has decreased markedly.

Also, I definitely agree about the calming supplements, there is very little data to support many claims about supplements in general.

[Scribbler]

I would cut him down to plain grass hay for a week, see how he does. If he is high metabolism horse like an OTTB or a big horse like a WB, he can have free choice grass hay for a week.

Free choice hay will help with any problems with ulcers, stall boredom, food anxiety, and being in a new environment.

Cutting things out of the diet will not endanger his digestion. After a week, I would add in either a complete ration balancer or a good vitamin mineral supplement in a hay cube mash. Start with a partial serving of VMS and build up to the full recommended serving over a week or two.

Then reassess where you are with weight, energy, and nutrition. The VMS will take care of any magnesium deficiency, and magnesium is the usual thing in calming nutraceuticals.

If he starts to look like he needs more calories and protein than he can get from grass hay, start feeding a flake of alfalfa. If he is getting fat on grass hay, you will need to start limiting access to it via hay nets and reduced quantity.

No horse actually needs oats. They are a good source of concentrated calories for weight and energy but they don’t add anything crucial to the diet. I have oats on hand and sometimes feed my big Paint up to a couple pounds a day in the hopes it wi give her more energy, but honestly it doesn’t do as much as giving her more frequent rest days.

Anyhow, my recommendation is to go back to zero with his diet (free choice grass hay) and then observe what he appears to need.

[BoyleHeightsKid]

@Scribbler

I would cut him down to plain grass hay for a week, see how he does. If he is high metabolism horse like an OTTB or a big horse like a WB, he can have free choice grass hay for a week.

Free choice hay will help with any problems with ulcers, stall boredom, food anxiety, and being in a new environment.

Cutting things out of the diet will not endanger his digestion. After a week, I would add in either a complete ration balancer or a good vitamin mineral supplement in a hay cube mash. Start with a partial serving of VMS and build up to the full recommended serving over a week or two.

Then reassess where you are with weight, energy, and nutrition. The VMS will take care of any magnesium deficiency, and magnesium is the usual thing in calming nutraceuticals.

If he starts to look like he needs more calories and protein than he can get from grass hay, start feeding a flake of alfalfa. If he is getting fat on grass hay, you will need to start limiting access to it via hay nets and reduced quantity.

No horse actually needs oats. They are a good source of concentrated calories for weight and energy but they don’t add anything crucial to the diet. I have oats on hand and sometimes feed my big Paint up to a couple pounds a day in the hopes it wi give her more energy, but honestly it doesn’t do as much as giving her more frequent rest days.

Anyhow, my recommendation is to go back to zero with his diet (free choice grass hay) and then observe what he appears to need.

All of this right here…

Oats are high in NSC and can make a horse more “looky” or jumpy. I personally quit feeding oats a long time ago and wouldn’t go back to them again unless for a good reason.

[candyappy]

@Lunabear1988

Yes honestly I don’t pick this guy as having ulcers right now. But I could see him being a little bit prone to them just with his personality. interesting to see if it does change anything.

Big difference in a horse that is a " looker" and prone to notice things and a “worrier” who I would think is more likely to have ulcer issues.

I worked at a barn that fed just about every horse there oats . Some got oats/safe choice combo, some just safe choice. It was the BO’s( who was also BM/trainer) way of doing things and it worked well.

They were all well behaved and did real well on that diet and they had everything from ponies, young horses to old horses.

So much can influence the way a horse (who notices everything) behaves and the fact that he is young and still training means he will get his confidence from his handler and the more exposure he gets the more his confidence grows.

If he is still growing I would look to something other than a RB. I had my youngster on it ( max amount) and he just needed more than it could provide. The feed I have now is lower starch/ sugar and he is doing well on it at 4 pounds a day but is not hot at all. This way he gets the needed nutrients and I do not have to supplement anything else.

To me it makes more sense to drop the alfalfa pellets , especially if you have good hay and feed enough of it. What you ultimately feed is up to you but every feed affects each horse differently and you never know how they do on it until you feed it.