Difference in Voltaire models?

[BroncoMo]

Up front disclaimer: I’m not looking for an argument on saddle brand reps versus independent fitters. We all know how these threads tend to derail, and saddle fits/brands tend to jump the tracks quite quickly. So, please don’t.

I’m curious of the differences between the Palm Beach and Stuttgart? All the differences y’all may know; panel differences, trees, customization options, twist, balance and depth of seat, flap configurations, etc.

I currently ride in a CWD Mademoiselle but the rep that I used when I bought it put me in a forward flap. Which puts my leg too far forward, though I love the freedom that the forward flap allows through my thigh. The CWD rep position in my trainer’s area has been nothing but a revolving door; I think they’re on their third rep since I had a sub-par “consultation” with one about 16 months ago.

My trainer is now sponsored by Voltaire, though it DOES NOT influence what brand her clients go with. The area rep has a whole ton of different brands in stock and seems genuinely concerned and educated about horse fit. She went to great lengths, and many different saddles, to get my trainer the saddles that would work for her many different rides. The customer service sounds top notch.

I have long been dedicated to CWD, but the lack of customer service and the ever revolving door of reps is quite the buzz kill. I want to be good at this stuff, I want to quit changing saddles every two years, and I want someone who is willing to put the effort in to getting the fit for both me and horse.

I don’t even know when I could make the trip for a consultation anyways. The horse in question is the one I made a thread about yesterday regarding half pad fit. Short summary: hocks are shot and in the process of fusing, has mild kissing spines due to hock issues affecting the ability to use his core. We are working on getting his hocks happy, then will condition him with back problems in mind. So, topline conformation will likely be changing in the coming months. So saddle consulting and shopping may be more down the road, which leaves me time to get educated on the model differences, so I can go in to that future appointment with the education and knowledge to ask the right questions.

[AmmyHunter]

The Stuttgart is the deeper seat model, the Palm Beach is more semi-deep. I switched from a CWD SE01 to a Palm Beach and have been very happy with it. Much lighter in weight than my CWD and is holding up well. Also easier to change the panels on the Voltaire than the CWD (and I speak from personal experience on that!). The CWD rep situation is a problem, and it makes a huge difference in how your order turns out and what kind of service you get. The quality of your rep matters in any brand.

Edited to add my CWD was an SE01 not an SE02.

[outside_leg]

I ride in the Stuttgart. It’s the deeper seat model, but honestly I find it more like a semi-deep, while I’ve always found the Palm Beach very flat. I too struggled with terrible customer service/lack of knowledge from the current CWD rep in my area. The Voltaire rep was much make knowledgeable, took actual measurements, explained what they thought would work and why, and the saddle fit both me and my horse. But it really is all about the individual rep with these saddles.

[GoneAway]

I have a new Palm Beach. I tried the Stuttgart a couple years ago and quite liked it, but I was coming off a 1-year hiatus from riding and I knew that once I was back in shape I would not want the slightly deeper seat and added security. Stuttgart still gave a great feel and I’d recommend you ride in both to see which you prefer.

I also opted for the “second skin” option (thinner, more flexible inner flap) and it gives a much closer feel to the horse, more like my favorite old CWD gave me.

[BroncoMo]

This is great, getting input from CWD riders. I certainly don’t care for Butet-type of flat. But CWD flat is perfect and don’t care for a seat so deep that I feel like I can’t get out of it. I do prefer a higher pommel and a balance that sits me up, and a wider twist. The Mademoiselle has been perfect, so maybe I just go back to a straight flap. It was just very disappointing to see a FB post from the area rep with a new person running it. I just don’t know how you get any support in the event that you need something, if they can’t keep someone on board longer than a few months.

[Cocorona]

When I switched from CWD to Voltaire (again because of rep issues) the fitter explained it to me this way- the PB tends to be more like a Butet, where the Stuttgart rides more like a CWD. I found that was very accurate. I ended up in the Stuttgart from my SEO2 and found it more a semi-deep than deep. I also rode in a forward flap in the CWD but don’t need that in the Voltaire. I also have the second skin which gives a great feel of the horse, I’ve been very happy with the fit and hve enjoyed working with the Voltaire reps I’ve met both in my region and at shows

[IPEsq]

I prefer a flat seat, so my Voltaire preference is that one (the Calgary I think? Something with a C). I ride a flat seat CWD. That said, I think the balance on both the PB and Stuttgart are better than the deeper seat CWDs. Especially if you are having a chair seat issue. The trees are different, and the Stuttgart would be more likely to fit a horse with longer withers. I think you can basically get all the same panel options on all of them.

None of the Voltaires (including Blue Infinite) worked on my horse with high, sensitive withers. He didn’t care for how their tree points sit, and it was hard to get the right clearance for him. I have a good rep, but we couldn’t really make it work.

[Cocorona]

@IPEsq makes a great point, sometimes no matter how much you want it to- the saddle brand just is not suited to the horse. That’s really what drove me from CWD to Voltaire for my mare. She went well in my CWD and I rode in one for years until I happened to try a Voltaire on her one day and the change was so profound I realized I needed to at least consider it. It’s just cut better to her shape, like when you find that perfect pair of jeans.

[AmmyHunter]

@Cocorona

That’s really what drove me from CWD to Voltaire for my mare. She went well in my CWD and I rode in one for years until I happened to try a Voltaire on her one day and the change was so profound I realized I needed to at least consider it. It’s just cut better to her shape, like when you find that perfect pair of jeans.

My CWD SE01 was fine for me, but when I bought a new horse it made him back sore and the difference in how he went in my trainer’s Voltaire Palm Beach was significant. So, it made the saddle search easy for me. CWD completely failed at the repaneling effort - made it worse and wasted time and money. I found the Stuttgart to be way too deep for me, but the Palm Beach was only slightly deeper than my CWD and very balanced, it put my leg in a great position.

Edited to add it just occurred to me that my CWD was an SE01, not the SE02, so that’s why the PB felt slightly deeper to me. Memory fading apparently

[BroncoMo]

Good stuff. Thank you. I’m not sure if my leg positioning is because I’m currently in a forward flap or if riding in my trainers Voltaire (not sure the model) truly made the difference. But she said she loved my leg in that saddle. Which she’s never said to me before. Granted I feel like the forward block is blocking my forward motion, but perhaps that’s a feel I need to get used to to get the right leg position.

The horse in question has a prominent deep wither, not shark fin by any means. But it’s there and sits deep in his back. Kind of narrow right now but I expect that to change as he gets fit and improves from some of his physical ailments.

Thanks again for the input!

[foursocks]

I have a Stuttgart for my jumper, who is built like a tube. I agree that it isn’t deep compared to other deep seats; semi-deep is about right. I sit to the jumps and this saddle makes it easy to do that; it fits both me and my young horse really well. The rest of my barn events and there are a lot of TBs; many of them have Voltaire XC saddles and dressage, and there are a couple of Palm Beaches floating around for show jumping; it does seem to fit the TB withers better than the Stuttgart.

[IPEsq]

For longer withers, I’d probably try the Stuttgart first. My previous horse sort of liked it, and he had prominent, wide, and long withers. But not super high (at least as he got older). But the rails shape wasn’t right in the Stuttgart for him and would start bouncing once he came through his back. He preferred the CWD 2Gs paneled to be wide in the shoulder and a bit lifted in the back.

I think the PB and Calgary don’t have as much wither clearance as far back into the saddle. And not that much clearance period without some customization which when testing them had a propensity to make the fit a bit narrow. The Stuttgart tree and the Voltaire dressage saddle (Adelaide) tree is the same if that helps you picture the gullet clearance.

Overall saddle balance, flap size/type, and stirrup bar placement will all impact your leg position and stability. And with some horses, it can be exacerbated. With my current horse, a LOT of saddles make me feel like I’m sitting in the back seat. Even models that feel fine to me on a different horse. But the horse is not actually low in the back and he typically objects to adding a shim or any lift behind as he can get very sore in the low back. Which made trying demos super frustrating.

[ComingAttraction]

Trust me, do not get the Stuttgart. Not made nearly as well as PB. Also deeper seat should be noted.

[iridehorses]

I have the stuttgart and love it. I call it my old lady saddle because i feel so stuck in there but I’m one to really like that feeling. The palm beaches are just a little too flat for me.

[foursocks]

Yeah, I love my Stuttgart; I’ve ridden in a lot of saddles over the years and it is by far the one that has fitted both me and my horse the best. I’ve had it now for about 4 or 5 years and it is in excellent condition.

As to the idea that it isn’t made as well as other models, that is a large claim to throw out there without more than what is probably anecdotal evidence. For more of that, for what it is worth, I’ll say that there are a lot of different models of Voltaires in my barn (maybe 15 saddles, from dressage to eventing to the Stuttgart to the Palm Beach), and none of them seem better or worse made than the others. Also, the Stuttgart is a jumper saddle, so the deeper seat is part of its intended purpose.