What would be the difference for the horse between these two saddles?
Does anyone know whether the channel/gullet on the Bates might be wider vs the Wintec?
Thank you 
It’s my understanding (at least it used to be this way) that the difference is in the materials. The Wintec Isabell doesn’t typically have wool flocking (it is synthetic that can’t be flocked), but the bates does (with/without CAIR panels). The Wintec has synthetic leather, the Bates has real leather. Technically, the Bates is the leather version of the Wintec and that’s it.
They changed the model specs through the years. I had an older Wintec Isabell many years ago and loved loved loved it. I sold it, and my next saddle fitter mentioned the changes in the model since my old model - wider twist and larger seat and wider panels. So the difference might be more dependent on the year made rather than the Wintec versus Bates differences.
At least at one point, it was possible to get a wool flocked Wintec Isabell. I know this for a fact, as I have one. I bought it as a sort of utility saddle that could be adjusted to fit new horses, those with changing backs etc. It is pre-CAIR and so it’s just the gullet plate that can be changed, but I’ve found it a useful and surprisingly comfortable saddle, which is why I’ve kept it all this time.
I’ve never had a Bates so cannot comment on that other than to say my understanding is the same as the poster above - it was just the materials that were different. I’d expect them to feel quite similar to the horse.
Thank you.
I’m not sure what to do. I have a horse I had in both a Custom Advantage Mono and Icon Flight. He developed really bad granulomas, we had to inject.
Used 2 different saddlefitters who told me the saddles fitted and did not know why this happened.
One fitter suggested I tried CAIR. I didn’t want to go all out on a Bates without selling at the least the Advantage, so I bought a Wintec Isabell CAIR. Against my expectations, this saddle turned out to be very stable on his back and very comfortable for me to ride in. And no more additional granulomas 2 months+ into the Wintec.
Now I really don’t know what to do, try to have the Custom refitted once more (seems like a stupid idea), just stay with the Wintec and take a break of saddlefit woes or buy a Bates Isabell.
The reason I’m considering the Bates, would only be if it were to be better for the horse, myself I’m pretty okay in this grippy Wintec. I do feel to my eye the channel on those Wintec is rather narrow when you compare that to other saddles, especially the Customs hence I wondered if the Bates makes sense.
And of course I also worry about the CAIR, so many negative reviews about that, but again surprisingly enough the horse is a lot happier in it and the stability is perfect, no slipping, no uneven feel.
Can you do a saddle trial with the Bates through any of the major retailers? Quite a few offer that service (SmartPak, Dover, VTO, etc.).
I’ve been quite happy with my CAIR saddles. :yes:
I suggest staying with the Wintec if you like the feel. Alternatively, my saddle fitter said she removed many CAIR panels and reflocked with wool. You can ask your fitter about this. I think it is easier to remove those panels in the Bates saddle, but don’t quote me-ask your fitter. You can also ask your fitter about the gullet. I’ve not found this to be a problem on multiple horses.
With my old Wintec Isabell, I had the fit assessed by an Albion fitter, a County fitter and an independent fitter, all of whom said the fit was actually quite good for my horse. A good fitter will tell it like it is and answer your questions.
@Lucassb , thanks for that reminder. I think my old Wintec Isabell had wool in it now that I think about it, and my ancient but every saddle fitter says fits my horses great wintec jump saddle is also wool flocked. As I recall there is something about them that makes them a challenge to flock (neither have CAIR panels). I can’t remember. I still own the jumping saddle and ride in it very occasionally.
Stick with the Wintec and CAIR. It’s a magical combination. If you’re dead set on having a leather saddle, see if you can get the Bates on trial.
I would love to not ride in CAIR, but the horses I’ve used it on say otherwise. For the price you initially pay for the saddle, it’s worth fixing, replacing, or buying new as needed.
Thank you all.
That seems to be what I am having with this horse. CAIR doesn’t make sense to me, but it doesn’t cause more granulomas and it’s more stable on his back, because I don’t have that uneven stirrup length feeling I’ve been running into with all other saddles, that need repeated flocking/shimming which doesn’t solve the issue. Strangely enough this Wintec only requires a thin square pad and all feels well.
No clue what longterm issues CAIR might bring along but in the short term I have used it, it has fixed many problems.
I’ll see if I can trial a Bates thru SmartPak or Dover, to allow me to compare. For myself I don’t care so much, if anything, I like the grippy suede. But kind of assumed a Bates had more advantages for the horse, but from what I read so far, seems there aren’t really much difference for the horse.
I love the grippy suede, too! I’ve become a total Wintec convert. I was a little dismayed a few years ago when I rode in my trainer’s Bates jump saddle; it wasn’t anywhere near as comfortable as my similar model Wintec jump saddle. But I do think it’s worth trying the Bates Isabell for the reasons you mentioned above, especially if you can do it for free/cheap through one of the retailers.
I had ridden in a Wintec and hated it. I rode in my trainers Bates and ended up buying my own. I like the seat, and the ability to change the gullet on a growing pony is a bonus.
I have the Wintec Isabell with Cair and I like the grippy seat’. When my horse gets bodywork done her back is never an issue’. She’s moved up to an extra wide so hopefully she doesn’t get wider and I have to switch to a different saddle’. I don’t want to fix what’s not broken at this pojnt
