Difficult Conversations

[Bebe_Falcon1]

Does anyone have any tips for broaching perceived difficult subjects with others? Some maintenance in my pony’s field has been deferred for a significant amount of time and I’m trying to follow-up and find out what the BMs plans are to deal with said maintenance. It’s not the first time I’ve brought it up, so each time thereafter it makes me feel more and more uncomfortable.

I now realize it’s one of the things I’ve had to compromise on since moving here, but it’s getting to a critical point whereby this stuff REALLY needs doing (we’re talking basic stuff that is specified as being included in the board ad).

I’m in the midst of writing an email and am hoping to tag this item on to the end, but seem to be struggling with the wording. Everything I write seems to come off sounding condescending even as I’m actively trying NOT to. Suggestions?

[Alex_and_Bodie_s_Mom]

If you’re paying for the pasture, and there are things that the BM needs to do to it, and those are spelled out in the contract, then you just jump in.

“It has been X months since we first discussed the maintenance issues in Pooky’s pasture. My contract states that X and Y are part of the board. I have discussed this with you several times, with no results. Let’s schedule a time to sit down and develop a plan and timeline for addressing these issues.”

Keep in mind that I don’t board, and I don’t know what the specific maintenance issues are (mowing? Fence repair? Filling in mud holes? Are these significant things that will take a lot of time and money to fix, or smaller things that could be done in a few hours?)

[Bebe_Falcon1]

Sorry, I thought I could be vague so as to not identify myself but perhaps I should be more specific!

The maintenance referred to is manure management in the field, which hasn’t been removed or dealt with in a very long time.

[Feliz]

“There’s a sh!t load of sh!t building up, are you going to get your sh!t together and deal with it?”

No?

Personally I’d send it as a separate email, so it can’t be “missed”. Maybe something like “Hey, what’s the timeline for removing the manure from the field? It’s really building up”

Short and sweet, no apologies or emotions. Good luck!

[Scribbler]

@Bebe_Falcon1

Sorry, I thought I could be vague so as to not identify myself but perhaps I should be more specific!

The maintenance referred to is manure management in the field, which hasn’t been removed or dealt with in a very long time.

So with this kind of generally bad facility management, there are two different aspects of “communication.”

One is how do you tell the Barn Manager there is a problem.

The other is how you get the Barn Manager to actually act on the problem.

Generally when there is a big maintenance issue going undone, there are significant reasons for that. These can include a lack of resources: time, cash, energy, labor power. Or: the manager does not think the problem is a problem, or at least not a priority. Or: the manager is in general terrible at time management and the whole place is falling apart,

There are various ways to phrase the communication that you think there is a problem. And the response could range from “Yup, you’re right and I’m going to fix that pretty soon” through to “That’s not a problem” or “get off my property if you are going to question my management.” We can however walk you through Talking to Difficult People.

But there is absolutely no way on this green earth to get an over whelmed, incompetent, or lazy barn manager to do upkeep if they don’t want to. And none of us have a fix for that.

So if it’s something like manure management, which is critical to horse health but also a huge or impossible task without the right equipment (like a tractor), well, I’m going to say that your only really effective option is to look for greener pastures elsewhere (literally in this case). Move. That pasture is never going to be cleaned.

[trubandloki]

Hey barn owner, Dobbin’s paddock is getting very overrun with manure. Per the boarding contract the manure is supposed to be removed weekly and it has been months. Is there a way for me to move this task to the top of the list. Dobbin is starting to have hoof problems that the farrier is blaming on the manure.

Be aware that though this is in your contract, you pushing the point might lead to you being asked to leave.

[LilRanger]

Some questions for you, you can answer or not, they are for you direction

Have you had this conversation before?
If yes, then this is a follow up
If no, you’re starting at the beginning, you’ll need to introduce the topic and provide the terms that are being violated

Do you have the ability/desire to help them fix the problem?
Would you clean said pasture for a reduction in board?
If not, what help can you offer to get this done if BM can’t?

Do you have a plan if this issue is not addressed to your satisfaction?
Can you move pony?
Do you want to start legal action? You may have a beach of contact case, but you’ll likely only get moving or vet costs for their failure to perform.

Before you bring this up with BM, find out what your best alternative to no agreement is, so you’re prepared for the worst, then be civil and listen to the answers.

[Bebe_Falcon1]

@LilRanger

Do you have the ability/desire to help them fix the problem?
Would you clean said pasture for a reduction in board?
If not, what help can you offer to get this done if BM can’t?

Some good questions. I used to pick the field myself (no reduction in board, mind you) but after the winter it’s just beyond what any single person can tackle. Nobody else seems at all bothered … or if they do, they’re not willing to actually do anything about it. I’m diligent about picking out feet on the regular and haven’t noticed any ill effects yet, but still. It’s less than ideal. With all the barns closing around us, the options to move are very limited. I really need to make this happen.

@Feliz

“Hey, what’s the timeline for removing the manure from the field? It’s really building up”

Short and sweet, I like it! I’ll send a separate email so this point doesn’t get missed or glossed over.

[Scribbler]

@Bebe_Falcon1

@LilRanger

Do you have the ability/desire to help them fix the problem?
Would you clean said pasture for a reduction in board?
If not, what help can you offer to get this done if BM can’t?

Some good questions. I used to pick the field myself (no reduction in board, mind you) but after the winter it’s just beyond what any single person can tackle. Nobody else seems at all bothered … or if they do, they’re not willing to actually do anything about it. I’m diligent about picking out feet on the regular and haven’t noticed any ill effects yet, but still. It’s less than ideal. With all the barns closing around us, the options to move are very limited. I really need to make this happen.

@Feliz

“Hey, what’s the timeline for removing the manure from the field? It’s really building up”

Short and sweet, I like it! I’ll send a separate email so this point doesn’t get missed or glossed over.

Ah. Everyone got used to you doing it, or else you doing it made them think there was no problem. You have quit doing it. Everyone may be waiting for you to do it.

This is a different conversation. “Last year I was the main/only person picking the field. This year I am not able to do that job. How can we organize things so it gets done?”

Maybe you need a team of volunteers.

If the only way it got done previously was you doing it, sounds like the barn manager never did it and may not think it’s an issue.

[MapleBreeze]

Send the email, then choose to help out or leave. A lot of times there’s bigger issues going on behind the scenes.

[BrendaJane]

“Hey, we talked about this before, when can I expect this to get done? I understand stuff keeps happening, but this is getting urgent”

When you said difficult conversation, I thought you were talking about birds and bees.
this is business! You pay for it, expect the service!

[Bebe_Falcon1]

@BrendaJane

When you said difficult conversation, I thought you were talking about birds and bees.

(Thankfully not!)

[chestnutmarebeware]

Or you can just ask about running a chain harrow around the field. If you have a ball hitch on your car or truck you could even offer to do it yourself.

It’s faster and easier than picking up all the poop and might be a more palatable option for the BO.

[SMF11]

So much information is missing! How big is the field? How many horses? How bad is the poop? Was the poop picked up in the past? How frequently?

I would want to know WHY it isn’t being dealt with. Are they short handed? Do they not care? Do they think it’s fine the way it is?

The answers to these questions would guide my actions going forward.

[BeeHoney]

I don’t know what size the paddock or turnout is or where you are located, but obviously those things are factors as to what appropriate management is. I know you are hoping to remain anonymous, but it makes a big difference to know some of these details.

Picking manure out of paddocks is an extremely time consuming endeavor in regards to horse keeping. It’s much more work than cleaning a stall if you have to drag a wheelbarrow out in the paddock and walk all over picking up poops (whereas with a stall you can just drive your manure wagon/spreader down the aisle and clean from contained areas). Picking paddocks instead of letting manure break down also results in more manure that needs to be hauled away, and right now that is extremely expensive.

Another point to consider is that in many climates manure breaks down just fine and there is no logical reason to pick paddocks. Horses poop and pee in the “rough” areas of their paddocks and don’t eat from those areas, and horses are not harmed from laying on a manure pile so in most instances there isn’t a hygiene issue from the horse’s perspective. I’m just trying to point out that in many areas, manure is not removed from turnouts for the reason that it would be a lot of labor/expense for quite minimal (if any) benefit to the horse.

For those reasons, I don’t know too many professional barns (even extremely fancy ones) that pick paddocks and fields.

In terms of dragging fields with a harrow, there are reasons to do that to be sure, but that is a very unhygienic practice in terms of parasite management as harrowing spreads manure (and parasite eggs) from the “roughs” into the clean areas.

Yes, removing manure could reduce fly issues, but it might not have as big of an effect as hoped for as typically manure still ends up being piled up or stored nearby until it can be hauled away.

If we are discussing a smaller turnout, like a “run” that is attached to a stall, then in that case I believe it would be very reasonable to request more frequent / thorough cleaning. However, I think it would be wise to keep in mind that likely your boarding situation is what it is and that change may not be forthcoming and you might need to decide if you are comfortable doing the work yourself or if you would rather move to another facility.

[Pico_Banana]

Honestly, if you’ve raised it multiple times and it hasn’t been addressed, I don’t think raising it again is going to change anything. (See definition of insanity.) Unfortunately, with boarding, you are always having to make compromises.

I think your options are (1) do it yourself, or (2) move if it bothers you that much. If you fill up a wheelbarrow each time you’re there, and if the paddock is not gigantic and not shared with other horses, you could probably make a dent in it pretty quickly. If it is shared with others, see if the other boarders will help.

I know it sucks to be in your position but sometimes you just have to face reality.

[eightpondfarm]

It is hard to pick a dirt paddock unless it’s dry. Picking in the mud is a noisome unrewarding endeavour. And picking in grass is a pain in the arse. In the Spring i have one paddock that is a horrible mud pit. And i take my tractor in there and remove many bucket(frontloader bucket) loads. This year i added about 4 inches of rock in there. Once it’s packed down i’ll add more, and top it off with limestone screenings. But…while it’s in it’s creek rock stage it is by far the most difficult poop clean up i have going on.

the only time i boarded i discovered fairly quickly that my standards of poop-management were much higher than the barn’s. So they rough-cleaned every morning and i completely cleaned every evening. Just a 12x12 stall, so didn’t take long. I considered it a labor of love. I’d clean while they (i had two different horses there at different times) ate. Then i felt very comfortable sleeping at night knowing they were snug and not in an ammonia pit.

[Bebe_Falcon1]

@Pico_Banana

If you fill up a wheelbarrow each time you’re there, and if the paddock is not gigantic and not shared with other horses, you could probably make a dent in it pretty quickly. If it is shared with others, see if the other boarders will help.

This particular turnout is a treed, dirt lot (perfect for ponies) but after a year of no clean-up of any kind (other than the manure I hauled out in the fall), there’s no soil left anymore … just a layer of manure (or broken down manure in some spots).

I used to commit one day a week where I’d fill as many wheelbarrows as I could in a reasonable amount of time, however, the “herd” in my mare’s field keeps growing so I’m not only picking up my mare’s poop, but the poop of three others too. BM assured the newest boarders that she knew the field needed scraping and not to worry, so they’re likely of the mind that it’s going to be taken care of at some point soon.

@Pico_Banana

Honestly, if you’ve raised it multiple times and it hasn’t been addressed, I don’t think raising it again is going to change anything. (See definition of insanity.) Unfortunately, with boarding, you are always having to make compromises.

@ the definition of insanity! Truth. Yes, this is the one compromise … barn is close, board is reasonable, unlimited hay in slow feed nets, shelter, heated water, and a nice atmosphere. I’m leaning towards raising the issue one last time then resorting to picking it myself again, at least where they spend the majority of their time (which is around the hay feeder). It became virtually impossible to continue cleaning it myself in the fall due to all the mud (and we all know what moving a wheelbarrow full of manure is like when the ground is saturated), but now it’s dry again, it should be a lot less messy/cumbersome/hopeless.

[lenapesadie]

You mention that BO told other boarders that she was aware field needs scraping. Presuming the equipment is on site to scrape it, I might consider offering BO help to get the scraping done. Like, can I come drive the tractors and scrape the field or help you with other chores so you have time to scrape the field?

[erinmeri]

Do the other boarders seem concerned? (If it truly is a poo pit, I hope so!) But I am really nit-picky, so I can see how my standards might not be reasonable (which is also why I like to pick my horse’s stall when I am there… that and to help the staff and because my horse is a pig who likes to grind her poop into nice, clean shavings). So maybe it’s not a real poop pit… but if it is…

I hate to say it, but if it has been a year with no clean up of any kind and it is a manure pit everywhere that requires scraping, then I think things are unlikely to change. If that was the case and it was me, and I could afford to leave, I would. I don’t want my horse living in a poop pit - even if it is her own poop… especially not if it was the poop of 3 other equines. Forget microbiology, that just sounds like terrible footing.

If you really want to hang onto this boarding situation, then maybe you could offer help to get it done, but I would be personally concerned about staying if it was an entire year of no maintenance and a full blown manure pit. This doesn’t sound like a compost in place, drag the pasture, or all hands on deck poop picking marathon. This sounds like a really gross enclosure in need of some major overhaul. I hope BO has some heavy equipment and a plan to not let it happen again. Unless your boarding contract states you are responsible for care and maintenance, you are paying for a service you are not getting.