Dilute urine and feed questions

[doublesstable]

I have a now 10 year old horse that I have owned for 8 years. Since I imported him, he has always been a “stall wetter”. 2019 he was diagnosed with ulcers. Treated with medications and re-scoped. He continued to urinate “a lot”. It became concerning because he would urinate during riding - 4 to 8 times. Vet did tests and he had dilute urine. He went to the hospital and had a bladder scope. They found no abnormal issues. We monitored his water intake; vets thought maybe Polydipsia. His intake was normal. I had several vets look at him and we found nothing. I added a water filter and it seemed to help.

I moved him to my property 7 months ago. I have been experimenting with supplements and still three trash cans of wet shavings a day. Recently he had to have teeth removed because of an abscess. He was allowed to have hay and the only hay he wanted was alfalfa. He would not touch his timothy. I noticed the urine had decreased. So I started giving him Bermuda pellets vs Timothy pellets and replaced the Timothy hay portion of his hay with Grain hay that I feed my donkeys. So he gets alfalfa and Grain hay. Wet Bermuda pellets. His supplements are Purina Outlast, Stabilized rice bran and Stabilized ground flaxseed. He also gets Immubiome G-Track for ulcers and a pre/pro biotic.

I also added a supplement that was recommended for ulcers called UL Blend - INGREDIENTS: Organic Oat Groats, Organic Linseed Meal, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Organic Licorice, Attapulgite Clay, Organic Calendula, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin E Supplement, Organic Lecithin, Organic Althea Root.

https://www.abcplus.biz/Equine_Specialty_UL-Blend

Unfortunately I added the UL Blend at the same time I discontinued Timothy hay. He has always urinated a lot. The one thing that was the same for all these years is the Timothy hay.

Thanks if your still with me I was wondering if anyone has experienced something like this?

I am happy the stall is not so wet and his urine is of normal color. YAY. But is this a fluke or could it be the hay???

Thanks for any ideas here!

[Scribbler]

One of the horses I’m looking after was getting a significant serving of alfalfa every day until we worked our way through the end of the alfalfa. She was also drinking a lot and peeing a lot. Once we finished the Alfalfa and went on just Timothy she has been drinking less. I think the excess protein can make them need to pee more.

[doublesstable]

@Scribbler

One of the horses I’m looking after was getting a significant serving of alfalfa every day until we worked our way through the end of the alfalfa. She was also drinking a lot and peeing a lot. Once we finished the Alfalfa and went on just Timothy she has been drinking less. I think the excess protein can make them need to pee more.

That’s what I have read about alfalfa hay and this horse is completely the opposite. He has never had any alfalfa hay until April of this year. For 7 years he got only Timothy hay.

Taking him off the timothy and giving him alfalfa has decreased the urine. So weird and that’s why I am so puzzled.

[IPEsq]

The reason for that with alfalfa is the higher protein content. Could the Timothy you have gotten been too high in protein for him? Bermuda is lower nutrition in general. I wonder if he needs a pretty low protein diet.

[doublesstable]

@IPEsq

The reason for that with alfalfa is the higher protein content. Could the Timothy you have gotten been too high in protein for him? Bermuda is lower nutrition in general. I wonder if he needs a pretty low protein diet.

Right with the Alfalfa being high in protein but he has had dilute urine when he was not on any alfalfa. Got better with alfalfa. I didn’t start feeding him Alfalfa until 7 months ago. He has had excessive urination for 8 years with many cuttings of Timothy. He has been at my place when I first bought him. Then he went to a training barn. Was at a lay up facility, then at three different training barns over those 8 years and always on Timothy hay. So there is no way to determine if the Timothy had high protein. All those years he didn’t have any alfalfa. Weird right?

He has been on a low protein diet for the 7 years and still a wetter. On a higher protein he is wetting less… and wetting less off the Timothy hay. It is so strange.

[IPEsq]

I assume you looked for possible kidney issues on bloodwork?

[Simkie]

I assume he’s been drinking less since the switch, too? Usually lots of pee goes hand in hand with lots of intake.

Don’t know if you’ve ever had bad heartburn or ulcers, but drinking water helps a little. Maybe he’s had some (subclinical?) stomach pain, and has been drinking to self medicate? And the alfalfa is treating that, so he’s no longer drinking a ton. Alfalfa is often recommended for ulcers!

[SuzieQNutter]

Yes lucerne is a buffer for ulcers. Feed half a biscuit before riding or travelling. Feed at ground level. Have grassy hay 24/7.

You can start feeding ulcer medication as well, there are a log of threads on that

[candyappy]

That supplement is outrageously expensive :eek:

[doublesstable]

@IPEsq

I assume you looked for possible kidney issues on bloodwork?

Yes we did… and it was normal.

[doublesstable]

@Simkie

I assume he’s been drinking less since the switch, too? Usually lots of pee goes hand in hand with lots of intake.

Don’t know if you’ve ever had bad heartburn or ulcers, but drinking water helps a little. Maybe he’s had some (subclinical?) stomach pain, and has been drinking to self medicate? And the alfalfa is treating that, so he’s no longer drinking a ton. Alfalfa is often recommended for ulcers!

The vets thought maybe the ulcers could cause him to drink more but he really drinks a normal amount and it hasn’t changed much. when he was diagnosed with the ulcers I did put him on Outlast which is an alfalfa based product for PH balance. Also the G Track for ulcers. He was also on the medications from the vet.

I would hope my poor horse didn’t have ulcers for 8 years as he has been an over pee-er all the years I have had him. Until I removed the Timothy hay he is not peeing so much. Also added the UL Blend and no more over peeing… I know the UL blend is pricey like Candyappy said - but if it’s working

I was always afraid to give him alfalfa because it always made his wayyyyy too fresh.

[doublesstable]

@SuzieQNutter

Yes lucerne is a buffer for ulcers. Feed half a biscuit before riding or travelling. Feed at ground level. Have grassy hay 24/7.

You can start feeding ulcer medication as well, there are a log of threads on that

Thank you… he is on ulcer supplements. When first diagnosed we did medications and re scoped.

He’s a very sensitive and hard working guy. I would suspect he will always be prone for ulcers. He’s home chillin and not showing so he’s living a easy life right now