Discussing trainer's show fees?

[ToTheNines]

I am not sure that anyone who does not keep their own horses can really appreciate how much work they are. At home, and more so at shows. And sometimes it is not just the actual work, it is also the watching and being ready for anything.

One day shows are a huge energy drain for trainers. I haul my own, and have quit going to one day shows just because they are so much work for me with one horse, much less a trainer with a bunch of horses. I am exhausted before the show even starts.

I completely agree with those who say if you want to avoid day fees, try the “meet at the gate” approach. You will soon realize that list of things that your trainer provides is endless. The getting up early to feed, the night checks, the use a of wheelbarrow or hose, the use of anything else you might have forgotten, the peace of mind knowing someone is at the show for long hours keeping an eye on your horse. I had a trainer once call me quite late at night to tell me my horse did not look quite right. She had stayed late to watch over him. I drove back out to the show grounds and he ended up fine, but her attention made me decide then and there that I was never going to complain about day fees.

[Calvincrowe]

I don’t see this as complaining about paying day fees. OP and everyone has agreed that a trainer should be paid for the work they are doing/service they are providing at a show. I see this thread as a divided group: on one side, the “I’ll pay and not think about how much I’m paying because someone is doing the work for me” and the others: “I’m doing the work, and doing it well, why am I paying to do this again?”

Many have shown, with facts/in person experience, that this trainer’s fees are high and that he/she is not necessarily providing service above and beyond. I think the OP is well within her rights as a client to question the trainer regarding them. She does need to be prepared to be jumped on by said trainer or finding a new barn/trainer when she does. When I look at barn/trainer combos, one thing I check is their show costs. This is where, frankly, some trainers gouge the hell out of their clients–sneakily at times.

OP–have that talk. You might PM Showbizz and see if her barn is a better fit!

[ToTheNines]

I posted above, but I do think that all that goes into a day fee is highly underappreciated. If a person were to try the do it yourself “meet at the gate” approach, they would appreciate this. A million things get monitored, attended to if necessary. There are long hours spent at the show, equipment that gets brought… the list is endless. You are paying for availability and expertise.

Actually, I would think that pitching in and helping instead of just sitting around would be a given, and not something one expected rate cuts for. Sure, I tack up my own horse, clean a stall now and then, stuff like that. But Ms Trainer earns every penny and more when she lets me warm up alone and rotate in at the in gate instead of with others that cry and have drama. Takes more of her time, but THAT is service I like! Just an example, but be sure you are appreciating all they do for you.

[Calvincrowe]

Oh, I appreciate my trainer. When they get to sit down at the table (I set up, under the awning we all set up) for a cool drink after coaching the 3 or 4 clients (all adults) who are mucking stalls, refilling water, feeding and pulling braids (which we put in at the butt crack of dawn), after setting up the whole barn aisle the day before, I appreciate the heck out of them! :lol:

Seriously though, I really do do all my own care at shows, and at my own home, for my boarders. (sometimes, I come home from a show in the evening and do all my barn chores at home before hitting the sack to do it all, home and away, the next day!) Have done for 20 years. I’ve “met them at the gate” for a very long time. Yes, I happily pay the $50/day my trainer charges to be at a show–that includes their coaching or riding in pro classes (which I haven’t needed for 7 years now), advice, help in tacking/holding the horse, wiping off my boots, walking a course, and if needed, feeding for me if I need to leave early. Fair compensation. But again, the OP–you can come back and chime in you know!-- is being charged $100/day which I think is very high, double the going rate for our area/her trainer type. She has a right to question that, or seek a different barn. Not to just suck it up because Trainer is doing them a “favor”.

[BostonHJ]

Doing self-care at a show is exhausting and for me, worth it. I’d rather be able to show more even if it means I am tired while I am there! Between hand-walking, constant stall picking/general stall area tidying/feeding/night check and actually getting the horse to the ring and riding (not to mention foraging for myself and a few trips to the in-gate/office), it is a full day even with one horse. I have paid a good chunk of change in the past where full care was mandatory, and while I prefer to do it myself, I do not question where the money goes.

[ShadowDansere]

[QUOTE=Calvincrowe;8105398]
OP–you can come back and chime in you know!-- [/QUOTE]

Haha, I’ve been reading and lurking.

I’m in the competent AA camp, I was a working student through high school and college and I think I’m pretty good at being helpful, and I agree, ToTheNines, that I certainly wouldn’t feel right just sitting back and not helping. I would just expect that my, and other clients help, would perhaps be reflected at least somewhat in our show bill. :o

I think at this point I’m just going to try to catch my trainer tomorrow before my lesson and ask her what I can do to make my show bill cheaper. She knows I’m a little stretched for cash with my lovely tax surprise, and she’s usually the kind sort that will be understanding when her clients have money issues. Depending on how our talk goes, the rest is just up to my gut feeling… it will be my green mare’s first show experience (we’ve already gone to a clinic and she did great, so fingers crossed!), and I want it to go well… and will probably be the fair weather sort that won’t go if the weather looks crappy since it’s outdoors and costing me a chunk of change. :lol:

[foursocks]

Sounds like a good plan! I hope it goes well!

I really don’t understand why people cannot separate out the difference between someone complaining about paying certain show fees to their trainer and someone who has a valid concern that those fees are overly-high, particularly if the client actually does some of what is purported to be covered. Regardless, everyone is within their rights to question any fee s/he considers high. Like many of us I’ve been on both sides of the pitchfork and I know how labor-intensive it is, so it isn’t a matter of not appreciating that! No matter how much work it is to take care of horses and riders at a show, if a trainer is charging a lot more than other comparable operations in the region a client has a right to question it.

[costco_muffins]

And if you decide you don’t want to go then you can just come to my show and announce for me. Problem solved!

[ShadowDansere]

[QUOTE=costco_muffins;8105820]
And if you decide you don’t want to go then you can just come to my show and announce for me. Problem solved! :)[/QUOTE]

Haha costco_muffins, happy to help, but do you have any jobs that don’t involve public embarrassment when I say everyone’s name wrong? :lol:

[costco_muffins]

[QUOTE=ShadowDansere;8105900]
Haha costco_muffins, happy to help, but do you have any jobs that don’t involve public embarrassment when I say everyone’s name wrong? :lol:[/QUOTE]

NOPE! Public embarrassment is part of the deal.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=inca;8102343]
Hauling seems expensive for such a short trip but I would expect some sort of mimimum hauling fee. But, if trainer is taking 5 horses at $85 each, that is $425. Pretty nice chunk of change for 20 minutes there and 20 minutes back. Might take what, 5 gallons of diesel plus her time?[/QUOTE]

You must admit, too, that she has more than $100K tied up in the equipment it takes to haul 5 horses even a mile down the road.

Unless you really know what you are doing and will accept “fugly” in your rig, you’d also have to tie up some money in buying your own truck and trailer.

It’s always a shockeroo to get quoted a price for local hauls. And then once you own all the equipment, you see the logic. I have been on both sides.

[jr]

[QUOTE=mvp;8107861]
You must admit, too, that she has more than $100K tied up in the equipment it takes to haul 5 horses even a mile down the road.

Unless you really know what you are doing and will accept “fugly” in your rig, you’d also have to tie up some money in buying your own truck and trailer.

It’s always a shockeroo to get quoted a price for local hauls. And then once you own all the equipment, you see the logic. I have been on both sides.[/QUOTE]

Plus insurance, plus maintenance, plus time and labor.

I had my own truck and trailer. I show quite a bit. Due to time constraints, I sold my equipment and now ship commercially. So far, I’m money ahead.

[inca]

Fair points. I own my own truck and trailer (now 2 trailers actually) and am glad my horse is now at home so I can haul myself to shows. I paid $100 per show for a 45 minute or so haul. So I suppose in that context of just saying “local haul” maybe that $85 isn’t so bad. But, to me charging that much for each of the 5 horses seems a tad high. Although I wouldn’t expect it to be much less than $50 as a minimum hauling fee.

[trubandloki]

[QUOTE=inca;8108294]
Fair points. I own my own truck and trailer (now 2 trailers actually) and am glad my horse is now at home so I can haul myself to shows. I paid $100 per show for a 45 minute or so haul. So I suppose in that context of just saying “local haul” maybe that $85 isn’t so bad. But, to me charging that much for each of the 5 horses seems a tad high. Although I wouldn’t expect it to be much less than $50 as a minimum hauling fee.[/QUOTE]
I think it makes far more sense (and it is how it is normally done in my experience) to have a set minimum fee per horse. Not per trailer load.
If the trainer only has one person going their minimum fee will probably barely cover the cost of everything associated with the vehicle and the time associated with getting everything together and to the show.

It is not wrong that the trailer owner makes some money trucking the horses to the show just because on this day the trailer happens to be full.

[fourfillies]

Great thread. I’ll just add the “bonus” of the local show in my part of the country is not losing the entry fee as well as the now often $50-100 scratch fee when the weather turns ugly and this faint of heart older AA stays home. Trainer still goes, now with one less to buffer her sunk costs. For this luxury I pay what many on the thread would consider high end trainer and day fees (I’m in PA, but away from the metros).

[ShadowDansere]

Just wanted to update everyone that we did the show, I am terrible at trying to negotiate prices (toootally messed up that conversation, oh well), and my little baby pony did great at her first show.

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/shadowdansere/Sadies%20first%20fun%20show%20-%20April%202015/IMG_4249-ZF-3279-16102-1-001-017.png

http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/shadowdansere/Sadies%20first%20fun%20show%20-%20April%202015/IMG_4243-ZF-3279-16102-1-001-014.png

:winkgrin:

[Long_Spot]

She’s adorable!