Let me just say that I am sure that is the way it is at JSalem’s place. That is not AT ALL the way it is at my barn. I have set up the stalls at every show this year and have also fed and watered the horses almost every AM and PM. So, yes, I would be upset with a set up fee and a huge day care fee. But, it is a valid point that every client’s view of “helping” might not really take into account all the work that has to be done.
Ditto jsalem. I found it didn’t work at all, I charged a day fee because people would say they wanted to help but it didn’t happen. They’d show up to bathe the horse at the time we were supposed to leave the farm. or after. By then I had all the horses clipped, bathed, wrapped and on the trailer. If people were there are wanted to help, great! but the operating assumption was that I take care of everything and you get a bill. most parents greatly preferred that.
I did have students I just met at the ring and coached too, they don’t get charged a day fee, but a smaller coaching fee or if they were very self-sufficient, nothing.
[QUOTE=inca;8102812]
Let me just say that I am sure that is the way it is at JSalem’s place. That is not AT ALL the way it is at my barn. I have set up the stalls at every show this year and have also fed and watered the horses almost every AM and PM. So, yes, I would be upset with a set up fee and a huge day care fee. But, it is a valid point that every client’s view of “helping” might not really take into account all the work that has to be done.[/QUOTE]
Before I instituted the “Daycare for all” fee, I did try the “you won’t be charged if you help” method. It was a pain. Did Susie skip out early on Sat? Which one went to the football game on Fri instead of staying to help? I even tried having the rule this way, " If you’re there INSTEAD of me" you won’t be charged. As in, if I get to sleep in on Sat because you’re feeding, then you won’t be charged. Nah…
Totally understand if you are a big A show barn. There are 3 of us that show regularly. I feed and water not only my horse but the other 2 people’s horse. There is no confusion. Before trainer leaves for the day, she confirms who is feeding PM and the next AM. It is 95% of the time me. I text when horses have been fed and watered. I text after I do night check.
But, when there were more of us that showed, trainer did more of the care and in that case I totally understand charging a fee to everyone. Too hard to keep track of otherwise.
I am with Inca–that’s how my barn works, too. We have a day fee at shows, but no groom/helper besides the clients themselves. We are a small barn–I can see bigger show groups needing more supervision and a single source of care. I am fairly sure OPs barn is more like ours–smaller, more “pitch in and get it done”. I still maintain that if the trainer’s day fee is $100 per day (plus the other fees) then she’s way over priced for this area/trainer type/show size.
Jsalem-- I can absolutely see how much trouble the a la carte show barn could be. We’ve had clients who are a bit sketchy on aspects of horse care, and trainer charged them extra.
I wanted to agree with Calvincrowe that the fees seem high for this area, compared to the barn I ride with here in the PNW (small barn but showing on the A/AA circuit) and other barns I have ridden with at shows when my trainer was gone judging. I have paid $65-$75 for the trainer day fee and that included any necessary trainer rides as well as coaching. The trailering is also higher that our barn charges, or what I’ve paid to have another barn haul my horse to/from a show.
Are you using your equipment for set up (water and feed buckets, wheelbarrows, pitchforks, brushes, saddle racks, bridle racks etc) or the trainer’s equipment?
None of these items last forever and in many cases part of the set up fees go toward maintaining the equipment which is used.
I’d venture to say that many trainers travel with 1000’s of dollars in their own equipment. The more elaborate the set up, the bigger their investment. Also, if their grooms are unloading and loading up everyone’s trunks etc they need to be compensated and this many times is part of the set up fee.
$100/day for training is at the top of what I personally have paid. My current trainers (the 2 I’ve used this year) charge that. But I do my own daycare so that’s all I pay unless they do a training ride. (yes I’ve been called a trainer hopper, but what most people don’t realize is that I match my training needs to my horses and I don’t tend to burn bridges)
Jsalem’s barn is bigger and she has a lot of nonhorsey clients and I think that’s why she was left to do the horses, because her clients don’t really know what they are doing in that regard. Please take no offense, they are just non horse people, most of them.
Jsalem also has a very nice show barn and goes to some of the biggest shows in this country and she cannot afford to have anything other than top notch care for her clients very expensive horses.
hype - the OP (and Calvincrowe and me) are not at barns with grooms that go to the shows. Personally, I have my own buckets, saddle racks (I have actually bought enough for all 3 of us that show) and tack trunk. I also have bought miscellaneous other “stuff” for set up. Obviously curtains were bought by trainer. And she supplies buckets to the other clients, the wheelbarrow, a small table, etc. Another client hand painted 2 beautiful benches we use for our set up. We all use our own grooming supplies. So we have all contributed to the set up and it is not super elaborate.
We totally understand that big A show barns that bring in a big rig and do an elaborate set up, have 2 tack stalls and 3 grooming stalls, bring 5 grooms, etc., etc. is COMPLETELY different. But, that is not the kind of barn OP is at.
I’m near you, I’m a trainer, and I think the rates are high.
My day fee includes coaching/riding. There should be relatively little set-up at such a short show (esp. with help from customers) and the hauling rate is SUPER HIGH, IMO.
I’ve had someone question my rates before, and I certainly was fine with the conversation. I think you should have a conversation with your trainer. You’ll get a little insight on her reasoning for the pricing and she’ll realize you are on a budget.
FWIW, approximately 8-10 horses go to the show, so two trailer loads. There are several shows in this series each year, trainer and clients are regulars. Trainer’s rates and billing practices have changed several times over the year, but are consistently high for the area and about twice as high as most other trainers coming to this show series. Trainer claims, “you would be paying 3x this rate at an A barn” which appeases parents who don’t do any research.
Trainer is a “meet me in the ring” type of trainer. On show day, she is not in the barns unless there is a large gap between classes (but with 10 showing during a 10 hour show day, there usually aren’t gaps). There are no grooms, no help.
So switch to a less expensive trainer if you don’t like the price. Clearly this trainer has demand at her current rates so she would have no need to lower them.
Sounds like the day fee is a little odd in that the OP says its the same for those who ship in the day of show and those who arrived the day before. I think being charged for set-up/tear down is a bit odd since you are doing all of the work - but is she charging for hay & shavings? (which sometimes I have an issue w/ since you pay for those as part of board - hay on the road vs empty stall; shavings though could be a different story). Some trainers I know have a minimum charge or shipping for a greater distance (not by much) than her trainer but overall not horribly excessive. It also sounds like the day fee includes coaching for one or both days, I think the drug fee ($20 per drug?) is excessive unless she supplies the meds.
Personally I’d be insulted at being charged to set-up (less shavings) when i was the one doing the work. But it all depends on how your barn works. The barns I’ve boarded at were low key show barns - yes we went to A shows but all of us were very hands on, took care of our and each others horses.We also all paid a “supply fee” twice a year for supplies so those were already paid for by US. I will say I loved having our BO/BM stock supplies for us.
[QUOTE=costco_muffins;8103175]
FWIW, approximately 8-10 horses go to the show, so two trailer loads. There are several shows in this series each year, trainer and clients are regulars. Trainer’s rates and billing practices have changed several times over the year, but are consistently high for the area and about twice as high as most other trainers coming to this show series. Trainer claims, “you would be paying 3x this rate at an A barn” which appeases parents who don’t do any research.
Trainer is a “meet me in the ring” type of trainer. On show day, she is not in the barns unless there is a large gap between classes (but with 10 showing during a 10 hour show day, there usually aren’t gaps). There are no grooms, no help.[/QUOTE]
Well, at the end of the day, you’ve seen the rate sheet - if you don’t like the prices, either don’t show or find someone with lower prices. Trainers are (hopefully, for their sakes) business people, and tend to charge what the market will bear. If there’s a large client base, they’re likely not going t obe willing to cut a different special deal for (potentially) each client.
[QUOTE=paw;8103396]
Well, at the end of the day, you’ve seen the rate sheet - if you don’t like the prices, either don’t show or find someone with lower prices. Trainers are (hopefully, for their sakes) business people, and tend to charge what the market will bear. If there’s a large client base, they’re likely not going t obe willing to cut a different special deal for (potentially) each client.[/QUOTE]
While I mostly agree with this, I would think a conversation re: show fees is completely appropriate. Trainers need feedback. Not just “we’re in” or “we’re out”, but also “we’re in but this is pushing our budget”.
Oh, I don’t ride with this trainer, I just have seen the show bills and the fee schedule 
I am a show out of my trailer, have the husband dust my boots at the in gate, DIY person myself!
[QUOTE=Jsalem;8102668]
Back in the early days of my business I didn’t charge any kind of “day care” fee. The clients “all pitched in”. This is what that really looked like from my vantage point:
*I made all the arrangements for stalls and entries.
*I packed the trailer with any supplies, buckets, feed hay. Occasionally there was someone there to help with the heavy lifting, but usually not.
*I wrapped the horses and shipped.
*I unpacked and set up all the of the horses’ stalls with shavings, buckets, grooming stall. There was usually one or two people to help with that.
*I was the first` person to the show so I fed am. Usually alone.
*I was the last person at the show so I fed pm. Maybe I had help.
*Folks did their own stalls, but not very well. I had to go behind and pick up the forks, shut the trunk lids, clean the food table and rake the hall.
*I organized the tear down and packed the trailer. I helped anyone that wasn’t competent to wrap. One or two helped with that.
*I shipped home alone and unloaded.
This is what it really looked like when “everyone helped out”. In reality, there were one or two parents that worked liked dogs. They made sure their kids worked like dogs. I was there for every single phase. I did the lion’s share of the work. There were at least half of the participants that didn’t do squat. Their idea of “helping out” was “I filled the water buckets on Fri”.
Somewhere down the road I got smart and realized that if my clients wanted to do their own care at the shows, I should just be able to meet them at the ring to coach. Make the entries, then see you at the ring. I knew that there was no way I could do that and hope to present the image I wanted to present at a horse show. I guess I outgrew the “Hey kids, let’s put on a show!”. So I hired help, charged an all-inclusive daycare fee and let people come after to school, sleep in if they didn’t have an early class and leave whenever they were done. You know what? Everyone was much happier. I am paid for my time and my clients can enjoy the horse show.
The moral of my story? Everyone grumbles about the money, but the majority of horse folks either can’t, won’t, or would rather not do the work. They need to pay for it.[/QUOTE]
Once again jsalem hits the nail on the head.
If you don’t want to pay day fees, have the trainer haul your horse but make the remainder of the arrangements yourself. Arrange your own stall and your entry. Don’t share a tack or grooming stall. Pack your horse’s feed and hay and water buckets and a muck bucket and fork in your car along with your tack trunk/saddle/saddlerack and grooming supplies. Show up at the show at the crack of dawn to feed and longe or hand walk your horse and muck your stall and bathe/groom your horse, and stay until late so you can feed and tuck in at night as well. Then, just meet your trainer at the warmup ring before your classes.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8103736]
Once again jsalem hits the nail on the head.
If you don’t want to pay day fees, have the trainer haul your horse but make the remainder of the arrangements yourself. Arrange your own stall and your entry. Don’t share a tack or grooming stall. Pack your horse’s feed and hay and water buckets and a muck bucket and fork in your car along with your tack trunk/saddle/saddlerack and grooming supplies. Show up at the show at the crack of dawn to feed and longe or hand walk your horse and muck your stall and bathe/groom your horse, and stay until late so you can feed and tuck in at night as well. Then, just meet your trainer at the warmup ring before your classes.[/QUOTE]
That is essentially what the show fees are getting her. She is doing all that you list, and being charged a day fee/training fee of $100. I think the question was is that amount reasonable for that level of service. Also, how do you approach the trainer to discuss.
[QUOTE=Jsalem;8102668]
Back in the early days of my business I didn’t charge any kind of “day care” fee. The clients “all pitched in”. This is what that really looked like from my vantage point:
*I made all the arrangements for stalls and entries.
*I packed the trailer with any supplies, buckets, feed hay. Occasionally there was someone there to help with the heavy lifting, but usually not.
*I wrapped the horses and shipped.
*I unpacked and set up all the of the horses’ stalls with shavings, buckets, grooming stall. There was usually one or two people to help with that.
*I was the first` person to the show so I fed am. Usually alone.
*I was the last person at the show so I fed pm. Maybe I had help.
*Folks did their own stalls, but not very well. I had to go behind and pick up the forks, shut the trunk lids, clean the food table and rake the hall.
*I organized the tear down and packed the trailer. I helped anyone that wasn’t competent to wrap. One or two helped with that.
*I shipped home alone and unloaded.
This is what it really looked like when “everyone helped out”. In reality, there were one or two parents that worked liked dogs. They made sure their kids worked like dogs. I was there for every single phase. I did the lion’s share of the work. There were at least half of the participants that didn’t do squat. Their idea of “helping out” was “I filled the water buckets on Fri”.
Somewhere down the road I got smart and realized that if my clients wanted to do their own care at the shows, I should just be able to meet them at the ring to coach. Make the entries, then see you at the ring. I knew that there was no way I could do that and hope to present the image I wanted to present at a horse show. I guess I outgrew the “Hey kids, let’s put on a show!”. So I hired help, charged an all-inclusive daycare fee and let people come after to school, sleep in if they didn’t have an early class and leave whenever they were done. You know what? Everyone was much happier. I am paid for my time and my clients can enjoy the horse show.
The moral of my story? Everyone grumbles about the money, but the majority of horse folks either can’t, won’t, or would rather not do the work. They need to pay for it.[/QUOTE]
This times eleventy billion. If you want to “opt out” of certain services, come to the show completely separately - i.e. line up your own transportation, reserve and set up your own stall, feed and clean your stall, groom and wrap yourself, etc. and meet your trainer in the warm up ring (if they allow it.)
If they don’t allow it find a more DIY-friendly program.
If you’re paying for services and not receiving them, take it up with your trainer.
I would love to have this option, no matter the cost (with in reason). I am looking for exactly this scenario (but not in your area).
