If you want to do something weird, you need to go hc, even at an unrated show. Schooling trips are supposed to be just that-- TRIPS. It is not time to go in and circle 3 times and show the horse the jumps. It’s time to to a trip that doesn’t count towards your division. If you want to do something weird you should ask permission and go hc.
3 Likes
I interpreted it as a banner on the fence surrounding the show ring that the horse was spooking at, rather than a banner on one of the jumps.
Either way, making endless circles is definitely a no-no!
2 Likes
My barn was once at a big rated that hung sponsorship and organizational banners on the inside of the main ring fence. As one might expect, there were some….issues. Particularly heading down a very forward 3-3-4 vertical, oxer, oxer away from the in gate. Banner was hung on the short side of the ring right at the end of that line. There was some drama.
When we got home and showed up for our first rides after a few days off, guess what was hanging around the inside of our arena 
Thats where and how to deal with things like this, not endless circles in a judged trip.
9 Likes
Had a similar experience. Schooling show at a new-to-me facility, with placards, banners, everything all the way around the inside arena fence.
It was like my horse was trying to read every word on every sign. And he was shocked by the advertisements. Maybe all the stuff he wasn’t getting from me? 
But yeah, none of the home barn horses did that. It was a matter of what the horse was accustomed to seeing. Worth schooling at home.
3 Likes
This was a red/blue schooling trip at a local but not “deep entry level” show. The trainer hadn’t shown up for open schooling in the ring between 6:30 and 8:30am and sent a pony in with a rated show kid to school by doing a schooling trip and a judged trip in the 2’3s. (Kid who was leasing pony was showing at 2’, this was clearly practice) Pony was looking at a banner hung on the fence and trainer just kept telling the kid to keep circling at that end of the ring, before jumping a single fence.
Judge was willing to give them a second circle but after 4 circles she excused them. It’s one thing to take the pony in and let them see the scarier jumps or such but had he shown up for schooling in the am or even the later “beginner schooling” before the 2’3 division the pony would have seen it all anyhow. Trainer knew that you can’t just keep circling before the first fence.
I understand that small organizations want to be welcoming and encourage novice participants. They can’t afford to lose anyone. It would also be nice if trainers, who are tasked with understanding the rules would impart them to the students. If a circuit defers to USEF rules for certain things, they need to understand those rules.
Two friends of mine , a few years ago got together to try to start an entry level show series in my area. While they had decent attendance, it lasted only a couple of years. One partner was really in favor of creating an encouraging environment, the other was in favor of fostering a competitive environment. Those two things are not always mutually exclusive but they were in this case.
3 Likes
I’m just going to say that if the show was rated by the USEF or following USEF rules, the judge had no choice. Three refusals result in elimination, which is exactly how three extra circles on course would be scored.
From the current USEF rules:
HU 118.2 Circling once upon entering the ring and once upon leaving is permissible.
3 Likes
I think the show needs to decide what reputation they want. For a schooling show something like this even if I heard of it through word of mouth would discourage me from going. I would hope that the goal of most schooling shows is to allow a more relaxed atmosphere and learning environment. If no one at the show caught it at the time then I really think that’s on them. Can you imagine if every single show started reviewing photos or video to change around placings based on rules or if they thought a round was ridden better than another round based on video.
One of my first dressage schooling shows I finally had a great relaxed intro test on my horse when the judge pulled me over after and informed me that bell boots were not allowed. My horse wore them 24/7 they were the rubber ones that matched his hooves and I just plain forgot. They pulled over the barn management who deemed it was up to the judge who decided not to eliminate us. We rode our second test without bell boots lol. It was a great learning experience for me.
9 Likes
In the era of everything happening on camera, post dated changes of placing could open up a can of worms.
Is a judge required to rejudge a class after a posted video a week later reveals a trotted lead change that they missed on the day?
As an announcer, I’ve sat beside judges for many hours. I’ve seen them miss things like a hack winner that picked up the wrong lead, a bunch of trot steps in the corner, or a martingale in the under saddle or a late swap in front of a jump. Judges miss stuff. Associations need to establish a statute of limitations on filing claims
8 Likes
the USEF rule book does have rules about the use of video
buried deep in dressage DR 123.8 Video may not be used to dispute a judges decision.
I suspect there are rules and words buried in hunter as well? The whole of GR 6; Protest and Charges has been removed so figuring out where these rules sit is a challenge. Certainly shows are considered over at the end of the day / weekend.
this is a question for a Super Steward. Conduct of judges and participants was a HUGE topic this past year and it was mentioned the overwhelming presence of video, in all its forms, on every ride in every ring.
3 Likes
