The difference is that the mustang is not a ‘breed’ in the way a QH is.
I have to say I didn’t really know the mustang adoption process before reading this thread because while we have mustangs in Canada we don’t have the blm process, and if a feral horse ends up at auction or training it comes some individual route.
Right now at our barn a coach and her experienced friend have a “rescue” pony that is unhandled not halter broke but calm in her stall. The rescue did quarantine and some basic socializing. Pony will stay in the stall and small run-out wearing a halter until she can be safely lead around.
That’s not even a mustang just a neglected horse.
From what I’ve read here it sounds like the blm just chases a wild horse into your stock truck and you dump him into your 20 foot pipe corall where he will likely be charging around for a few days at least. And then it’s up to you to figure out what to do with it.
I can’t see this being remotely feasible unless you are a skilled trainer of unhandled horses on a big ranch setup with lots of room. Wild boy would be setting off all the other horses too.
A green broke horse takes a year or two to be balanced under saddle enough to start making real progress schooling. A feral horse is going to take a bunch of extra time before you can actually start even doing real ground work. It seems to be adding even more startup time and costs to the project, compared to if you are backing a colt that had good handling and socialization to humans as a foal.
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And the males are still stallions, at least until the vet can safely get to them to work on them, adding another layer of complexity to housing and handling them.
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The Quarter Horse wasn’t really a “breed” until 1940.
Many things people think of as breeds are actually registries, as was the quarter horse until 1940.
Indeed the influx of TB continues in registered quarter horses, complicating further the idea of “breed”.
I could go in depth, but you can do the research as part of your education in horses.
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And they don’t usually get great handling in the holding pens. I would think that stockyard environment for a year or two would make the horse less trusting of humans. I watch a quite good TV show about a wildlife rescue and they stress how they need to keep the animals unhabituated to humans so they can function properly after release.
Seems like the blm holding system keeps the horses wild which would be fine if they were elk or buffalo, not so much if you want them tame eventually.
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I think BLM is doing the best they can with housing under the circumstances. Someone where on this board there was a description of cost per horse and there are over 46,000?!! horses being stored!! (I think?).
The horses are being fed, watered, vaccines, shod? It’s just not a realistic long-term plan and the horses keep accumulating. If anything, the horses may be optimal to view but people need to be realistic.
I wanted a pony when visiting assateague as a kid. My dad wouldn’t even let me enter a raffle for one, for fear I might win something that ridiculous.
Look up the differences somewhere on the board where horses were set loose on large expanses of private land/ranches to “save them” and how it backfired.
It is a really tough situation.
I know. I wasn’t trying to criticize the BLM in their impossible task, but just thinking about all the factors that make taking a mustang quite the project. I was trying to imagine a wild pony getting chased from the holding pens into a stock truck and out into a pipe fence at someone’s ranch, and the chaos, and how far that was from how we generally want to help horses adjust to changes.
On the conformation side, it appears from looking at the videos that many seem low in the pasterns. Don’t know if the crummy footing has something to do with that or not.
On the facilities needed; It seems like you either have to have your own property with facilities specifically built for mustangs or a boarding barn that would allow you to build there. Not many already have six foot high fences!
Link: http://www.mustangs4us.com/Adopt%20Section/housing_&_fencing_your_new_mustang.htm
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Thanks for your response, I was wondering about that. Some pics I’ve seen of them standing in Burns, OR look (to my very amateur eyes) pretty decent, but I wonder what you think:
https://www.facebook.com/pg/AdoptOregonMustangs/photos/?tab=album&album_id=1447428228614471
I would love to hear which of the mustangs shown in that album you would pick for best functional conformation, if you wouldn’t mind.
They all show the dun factor and are very pretty colors.
Several are under 3 and so final form isn’t set yet, and withers haven’t come up yet.
A good mental trick to evaluate a horse with a pretty color, pinto markings, or an interesting breed is to imagine the horse a solid bay. Then imagine that horse is being sold out of someone’s back yard on Craigslist with no pedigree or story.
When I run that test on these adult mares I’m afraid my response is meh
4023 I feel friendly towards her, since she is looking at the camera and seems relaxed. Her shoulder is relatively large and she has a relatively long humerus, upper arm bone, though it isn’t as vertical as it could be, which affects range of motion in the stride and jump. I like more hip on a horse, and her SI seems like it could be a bit far back, and already possibly strained (do I see a hunter’s bump in the making?). Her hind legs seem long and her stifle is higher than her elbow, which can make for a downhill posture. Her neck is very thick, and seems to tie in low on her shoulder, though it’s hard to tell this exactly without poking the actual horse.
4006 very similar except I think her humerus might be shorter, her shoulder smaller, and her pelvis/SI ,more strained.
3998 has a thinner neck, less visible SI strain than the other two, but she is also photographed on a slight angle, so it’s hard to judge the proportion of shoulder and hip to body.
4006 and 3998 walking show the somewhat downhill posture in action. Downhill is actually quite functional for race horses and presumably wild horses that need to run, but not so functional for riding horses.
I think out these three, the only adult horses on this website, I like 4023 best, but I’d want to see proper conformation photos of all of them, and in person, and how they moved, before I’d really commit.
I also have to say, I don’t see particularly big bone or big joints on these horses. Their hoof/pastern angles seem fine.
Minus colour and a good story, I’m not sure what the advantages would be here.
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The only one I really liked (just aesthetically, at my level of experience) was the 3 year old darker grey mare looking back at the camera (4005). Not sure what your thoughts were on her? Also I’d be interested if you have any guesstimates to how she might change in the next couple years, if that’s something that would be guess-able:
https://www.facebook.com/AdoptOregon…type=3&theater
It’s interesting to hear that you don’t see much bone on them. I need to better develop my eye for the relativity of bone on individual horses for their size and also between horses.
I guess based on what I’ve heard (and also, I’m sure, what I don’t know) is that what I think my ideal ‘type’ would be irrespective of discipline and breed (kind of an oxymoron, I know, probably nonsensical but just aesthetically) a combination of a smaller Irish Draught and a Welsh Pony (section Ds). Obviously those are very different breeds in a lot of ways, and both suited more to english than western. I just love everything I’ve heard about the sanity and soundness of Irish Draughts (RID, not ISH) but just love how the welshies look.
I’d be interested to hear how you think the bone of these mustangs compare with those of Irish Draughts. I don’t know how practical it is to compare them as obviously there’s a massive height difference, and very different looking in a lot of ways, but just curious.
https://www.google.com/search?q=iris…w=1920&bih=942
My interest in a mustang is much more experiential than goal based, in that I don’t have discipline specific goals with the mustang project, but would like to learn from a horse that has grown up with minimal ‘baggage’ and been raised in a herd setting. The (general, stereotypical) soundness and smarts add to the appeal. (Edit: I should add that while I may not have discipline-specific goals I would do desensitization and basic riding training at the minimum)
Would it be right to sum up that of what you consider the better ones in that group, your general impression was ‘not terrible, don’t see any major issues, but nothing great’?
I saw grade stock horse ponies.
You might want to search for a blog called hooves blog by Mercedes. It’s inactive but still accessible I believe. The blogger is a trainer and horse massage person with a very good eye and she set out for a year or two to do a functional conformation blog based on Deb Bennett’s work. Excellent discussions of multiple types of horses. Go find that blog work through it all and then come back here. I don’t have the time or the resources to recapitulate it all here. It will answer a lot of your questions.
Tag 4005 the 2 year old grulla? What made you prefer her to the others? To me she just looks like the baby version of her aunties or older sisters, but with absolutely no withers yet, being two. What are you seeing that makes her look better?
Ok so it sounds like what you are after is a cob, a large pony or small horse with some draft features. Very common in Britain, not so much in North America. A cob looks like a shrunken version of the Irish draft. The horses you link to have higher set necks than the mustangs which tend to be downhill like a lot of quarter horses. Welsh section d is the cob.
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Ah but I used to be at shows with Okeden Taffy and I always thought he looked just as spectacular under western tack as english. I heartily recommend welsh cobs.
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[quote=“J is that what I think my ideal ‘type’ would be irrespective of discipline and breed (kind of an oxymoron, I know, probably nonsensical but just aesthetically) a combination of a smaller Irish Draught and a Welsh Pony (section Ds). Obviously those are very different breeds in a lot of ways, and both suited more to english than western. I just love everything I’ve heard about the sanity and soundness of Irish Draughts (RID, not ISH) but just love how the welshies look.
I’d be interested to hear how you think the bone of these mustangs compare with those of Irish Draughts. I don’t know how practical it is to compare them as obviously there’s a massive height difference, and very different looking in a lot of ways, but just curious.
My interest in a mustang is much more experiential than goal based, in that I don’t have discipline specific goals with the mustang project, but would like to learn from a horse that has grown up with minimal ‘baggage’ and been raised in a herd setting. The (general, stereotypical) soundness and smarts add to the appeal. (Edit: I should add that while I may not have discipline-specific goals I would do desensitization and basic riding training at the minimum)
[/quote]
Jiminy Cricket, regarding what I bolded above . . . if you want to learn from a horse that has minimal baggage and has been raised in a herd setting, you are much better off buying directly from a breeder than you are going to the BLM to get one. A horse from the BLM isn’t without baggage. Being rounded up is a traumatic experience. Being run through a chute is a traumatic experience. Being branded is a traumatic experience. Being separated from your herd in an instant and loaded onto a trailer and driven away from your life is a traumatic experience.
Buying from a breeder who has a carefully designed a breeding program for a purpose is (provided they are a good and conscientious breeder) the best you can do. The horse has been bred with an eye to improve the breed, with conformation and temperament in mind. The breeder has handled the horse from day one. The horse has had regular veterinary care and has been taught the basics of getting along with people and living in a herd - the best of both worlds.
I happen to have both a mustang and a Section D Welsh Pony. I also have a TB. My TB is fine-boned and more of a “ladies’ horse.” My mustang is the same height as my TB, but he can carry my husband easily, whereas my TB can’t. The mustang has lots of bone and big, solid feet. My pony has good bone also, along with better overall conformation.
Here’s a picture of her last year:
[IMG]http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Annwylid%20DLite/th_20160220_145226-1_zps5xkolgp5.jpg)
And a picture of her this morning:
[IMG]http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s654/PrincessFishCheeks/Annwylid%20DLite/th_20170406_091438_zpsr1kx9kca.jpg)
Like I’ve said before, I’m glad I have my mustang and have had the experience of training him. But as far as the “fun-ness” of a project and starting a horse, the pony has been so much easier/better/funner/whatever-er. For someone who is looking for a first-time project, you can’t beat working with a reputable breeder.
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I missed that bit from OP about thinking a mustang would have less baggage. OMG. No. Everything everyone has been saying here points to the fact mustangs are going to have more baggage, more trauma, if you will, than most horses. That is why they are running obsessively up and down the fence lines in those videos.
Pocket Pony is 100 % right. If you want a happy easy horse get one from a reputable breeder that acclimates them to humans kindly and gently. We were in the stall with my coach’s foal the day it was born, giving her rubs. This is a horse that will grow up trusting people , yet not be allowed to walk all over them. When it comes time to train her, my coach will make it look very easy because she will just ease from ground work to sitting on her with no drama.
Horses raised right come with good baggage.
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If the OP likes Irish draughts and Welsh Ds, doesn’t it make more sense for them to look at Irish draught and Welsh Ds instead of looking for a mustang that looks Welsh or Irish? As others have said, plenty of reputable breeders run their youngstock in herds and, bonus, socialize them with humans in a positive way.
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I’m observing two foals bred by my coach, born this summer. Filly was born in the barn to a sweet mare that has been with coach for years. We were in the stall the first day handling her, she got a halter on the first day. Colt, same sire, was born out at pasture on a different property, brought into the barn at one day old. His mother is also basically sweet but was a bit hard to catch and is newer to the place.
At 6 months there is s subtle but real difference. Filly is much more friendly and curious and confident about approaching people. Colt is just a little more cautious. I expect it will all even out, and coach is brilliant at starting horses, so no worries just an interesting difference based on mother’s attitude and place of birth.
Now figure what you’d need to overcome if mare and foal were totally wild, then rounded up by helicopter and put in pens where there was no gentling
done and they continued to see humans as adversaries and remained feral.
Why not start with a horse that loves humans?
That said, mustangs are feral domestic animals not wild animals. Feral domestic animals tend to keep a slot open that allows for human interaction in a way true wild animals don’t. It is much easier to make a barn kitten into a housecat than to try to tame a raccoon or bobcst. People are now buying I mean “adopting” third world street dogs who settle in fine. And mustangs are far easier to train than zebras!
So it’s not impossible. It’s just with the mustang you need to overcome the baggage of being feral and being roughly treated in comparison to domestic horses, in order to get to the position of mutual trust that is built into the upbringing of wellnraised domestic horses.
Indeed I’d even go so far as to say that for the true domestic or pet species, cat dog and horse, bred so long as companion animals, the true or authentic relationship is symbiotic with humans. They were created by us and (in the case of sheep and chickens) dependent on us for survival. Horses are well suited to living feral, more than most other pets or livestock, but it isn’t “natural” anymore than its natural to have a whippet lab cross roaming the streets of Mexico City or a nest of feral half Persian kittens out back under the old tool.shed.
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