Distinguishing between canter and travers aids

[Fruehling]

I find myself in a situation where I’m having a hard time communicating the difference between a canter aid and travers. I’ve been schooling more lateral work, and have just started getting what I feel is decent/correct travers and half pass. However, my aids for travers and canter are very similar, and I’m not sure what I should “pick” to do differently to clarify it for my horse. For both my outside leg goes back, and my inside leg goes on. For canter it’s more inside leg, less outside, as well as drive from my seat (my horse is quite seat sensitive). For travers it’s soft inside leg, with more outside leg further back. My problem is is that after doing a fair bit of lateral work, when I ask for canter, as soon as my leg goes back she shifts her haunches over and gets somewhat “suck” in the travers. Adding more inside leg either causes her to do an awkward leg yield, or just trot faster.

Insight on how I can clarify my aids?

[Scribbler]

Hmmm. I’ve recently been riding a lot of half pass and canter on a school master.

I don’t use the inside leg at all in lateral work. Horse moves towards an open inside leg. I weight the inside seatbone.

I mostly use inside leg for canter, outside leg is further back on and lightly there.

Outside leg for lateral work is very clear.

But it’s also about bend and about seat and intention. There’s a weight shift in lateral that’s not there in canter. And there’s a moment of settling and collecting that precedes a canter transition that’s not there for lateral work.

I think maybe paying more attention to clarifying and differentisting seat and weight aids will help.

[EventerAJ]

Weight your outside seatbone for canter, inside seatbone for haunches-in. Horse should follow the weight in your seat and “step under” that hip.

I was not originally taught this, but since I’ve learned it comes pretty naturally to most horses. Put your weight (without tipping your shoulder) in the direction you want the horse to go; leg yield and shoulder in, sit outside (relative to bend). Half pass and haunches in, sit inside. Canter needs to carry with outside hind, so sit outside…it will really help hold a counter canter, too, weighting the outside seatbone; ask for flying change by shifting weight to inside (new outside) seatbone, supporting with leg aid of course, allowing inside hind to jump through.

[maybesmom]

Agree with both others that weighting is different. I also use my inside leg forward near girth for canter depart, not just outside leg. I tend to use inside leg more than outside leg back so they understand tht I am going to lift them into the canter.

[SuzieQNutter]

Lift your inside seat bone for which canter lead you want.

If you are pitting your leg back for canter now, your one tempi changes are going to look horrible as you will have to swing your legs back alternatively every stride later. The art of dressage is to make it look easy and magical not legs swinging back and showing effort from the rider.

[merrygoround]

Think of lifting into canter. If your body maintains a steady trot rhythm at travers, there should be no confusion.

So play with it, til you train you not to confuse your horse.

[Guyot]

For canter depart I just use my outside leg from knee down. For lateral work I position my leg back from the hip. Inside leg used if horse falls in during any of the above.

[Moogles]

My hips and seat bone weighting are the difference. When I ask for a canter my hips are very straight, pointing ahead like car lights. I half halt to prepare him and the lower outside leg that goes back for the aid AND returns to just behind neutral after the aid. I have a slight forward weighting of my inside seat bone.

For haunches in I still preparatory half halt, but I’m controlling the shoulder differently to keep it on the track. I’m bending him more around my inside leg so the inside seat bone is weighted a bit more and it feels like I am wrapping part of his body around my inside leg. My outside leg goes back, stays back and is a bit farther back than the canter aid, it does not return to just behind neutral. My hips also follow his, so they are no longer pointing straight ahead like car headlights.

In canter half pass I would say I feel like my outside leg remains farther back and aids differently… like I am aiding for activity AND directing the hind leg under and over his center of gravity (I use inside leg for activity as needed as well). Again, I feel like I weigh my inside seatbone more and the weight stays there until I straighten, then I lighten it a bit (not all gone though…) to allow him to go straight.

[Scribbler]

I also feel like the difference in aids between travers and half pass is very subtle, really just a difference of intention and seat weight. And yet the horse never mistakes one for the other.

[Fruehling]

Thank you very much everyone for your replies! I will definitely try being more clear about making my weight placement different.

@Scribbler - At this point I still need inside leg to maintain energy, and prevent her from falling in. For half pass I use my hand to determine the direction the shoulders go. In travers they stay square while my body/leg asks for the bend, in half pass they move together slightly in the direction I want to go.

@EventerAJ - Thank you!! This makes a LOT of sense to me. I’m definitely in the habit of always sitting on the outside, as if I’m always driving forward with my seat. But it makes sense not to sit on it when there isn’t that hind leg to sit on.

@SuzieQNutter - Ah, yes, this habit stems from a long history of mainly riding green horses, and never riding well trained ones haha. My current horse (working on 2nd level) is the most trained horse horse I’ve been able to ride with any sort of regularity, and I’ve done all the work. So unfortunately the blind leading the blind! Working on fine tuning all the time!

@merrygoround - Exactly! I just wanted to find out what it was I should be doing, so I can do something that I won’t have to un-train later!

@Guyot and @Moogles - Thank you, that makes sense!

[Dressage_Strider]

Also, if you put your horse in shoulder in before canter depart, he will not be able to push haunches in, but instead will step under really nicely and should give you a beautifully engaged depart

[Fruehling]

Thank you so much everyone! I tried it during a ride and was amazed at how well she responded to it! The second time I asked for haunches in I just changed my seat and I could already feel her balance change, and she held it way more consistently and activity. Because the distinction in my seat was there our shoulder and half pass improved too. It felt like my horse just said “Finally you got it right!” We had really nice canter transitions when I remembered to sit on the outside and not tip forward into it.

It’s making my wonder what else I’m doing wrong/should be doing differently!

What exactly are you doing in shoulder in? In half pass? Canter to walk transitions? Where are your hands, shoulders, weight, seat, upper and lower legs?

[SuzieQNutter]

Aaah I can tell you about canter to walk. It is done with you seat and not the reins. My Vinnie Girl taught me that. I now get the word good from every instructor on downward transitions.

Really the answer to all your questions is seat. To start with the legs mean forward, then it changes to the legs mean sideways. Your seat means forward. Then it changes to seat.

I can still remember that magical lesson where I did half pass down the centre line, turn at b and halt at x, keeping her collected without the reins and without legs. Magic is the only way to describe it. She was so in tune. I am not strong enough to do that now but I am working on it with a new horse.

We never stop learning.