DM in GSD - test results

[Coyoteco]

I have a six yo GSDx whom I had tested for DM. His results just came back as A/N so he has one gene and is a carrier (neutered male). I adopted him from a pound where his life was very traumatic and he was in a small cage.

When SquishtheBunny mentioned DM in a thread about another dog, I looked at it and felt that my dog could be evidencing symptoms and had him tested. He is weak in the back end, trembles on occasion, runs with his hind legs closer together than I think is normal - all of this is pretty subtle. Since he’s been here and has self exercised a lot in addition to walks, he has gained a lot of strength in his hind end. He has a path where he runs a lot and I have one jump that he goes over each time he goes around. He has developed a lot of muscle in his hind legs.

The test result means that he is unlikely to exhibit symptoms of DM. So, can I assume that anything going on with him at this relatively young age is not related to DM? If he is the rare A/N dog who gets the disease, would it necessarily come later so that I can be certain that these subtle symptoms are not DM? Could he have exhibited symptoms because of the stress of impoundment and then being in the pound and be better now that the stress is relieved? Perhaps he simply needs chiropractic treatment because of the pound’s roughness?

And then there is his littermate whom I do not own. She is a spayed female and has exhibited absolutely no symptoms. Should I have her owner test her or leave it alone? Chances are that I’ll end up with this dog too at some point.

[mommy_peanut]

With the what you mentioned, it’s really hard to say what it may be.
How long have you had him?
How long has he had hind end weakness? Has it improved or gotten worse?
What exactly are the symptoms he’s showing… lack of hind end awareness, lack of coordination, does he walk ok or does his feet knuckle under, getting up/down stairs, etc.
How does he tolerated moving around, exercise?

Here are a couple DM sites.
https://www.facebook.com/DEGENERATIVEMYELOPATHY

http://www.ivghospitals.com/specialty-services/symptoms-of-degenerative-myleopathy/

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2012/june/degenerative_myelopathy_in_dogs-25037

[tarynls]

Has he been evaluated for hip dysplasia? Weakness in the hind end, occasional trembling (maybe when muscles are fatigued?) and the altered close gait behind could be signs. Those could also be signs for an unstable CCL, unilateral or bilateral.

If he drags his hind toes (even occasionally) or knuckles over with his toes, then I’d be looking closer at DM (those were my dog’s first signs).

There is a proprioception test you could do at home before a vet exam - this will give you an idea if he knows where his hind feet are. Have the dog standing (you may need to put an arm under his belly to gently support him if he’s inclined to sit). You’re going to aim for a fluid motion - (this is how I checked: if you’re on the dog’s left side, check the right hind using your right hand and vice versa… down the front of the leg, kind of gently ‘swoop’ the paw off the ground - not high, an inch or two is fine.).

If done correctly, your dog should hardly notice how you moved his paw. A neurologically ‘normal’ dog will either right his paw so the pads are on the ground -or- immediately put his foot in the proper orientation, with pads on the ground. A delayed response may indicate a neuro issue. Make sure you repeat the “test” a few times on each side, then repeat a few hours later or the next day.

Best of luck - I dealt with DM in an epileptic Husky… not fun. If it turns out you are dealing with DM, I had good initial results with aminocaproic acid.
-Taryn

[Coyoteco]

mommypeanut and tarynls I appreciate the responses. His foot does not knuckle under or drag his toes.

I am thinking that he doesn’t have DM and I’m going to assume that the A/N results confirms that. It’s probably as simpleas his being injured when he was roughly captured with no medical attention afterwards, and then placed in a small space where he couldn’t move around. He has continually gotten stronger since being here. I’m thinking that a good dog chiropractor may benefit him.

I’d equate his symptoms as something like a horse that is nqr.

I will watch him closely through the weeks (and years) and see if there are any new indications. I had not seen the test tarynls posted and will add that test.

I think I was just wrong and there is nothing better than being wrong on something like this!

Thank you both.

[twelvegates]

According to this website, your dog should NOT develop DM, as he is a carrier only, having one copy of the mutation.

http://www.vetdnacenter.com/canine-disease-degenerative-myelopathy.html?vphone=1-800-625-0874&vdnis=DNIS0874

[Coyoteco]

Thanks twelvegates. My report said that it was much “less likely” but certainly did not rule it out. Them my thoughts ran to HYPP where N/H horses often become symptomatic. That may be apples and oranges, though, but this being a new test I remained concerned.
With the tests that have been mentioned on this thread and in articles, I’m going to assume that he won’t get the disease, but I will watch him.

[alto]

Do you have a local vet that is well versed with the condition? I’d want to do a thorough work up at this time … it is one genetic foci that has been identified but researchers know there are others …

[Coyoteco]

He’s been to the vet, and been examined by a couple of vets over the past few months. I don’t think he needs more genetic tests. I think he needs a chiropractor and go from there. Best guess is that when animal control roughed him up, he got sore and then when left in a cage, he stiffened up. He certainly lost a lot of muscle and weight in the pound. He doesn’t have any “sore” places that I can find so I’m not worried about a chiropractor adjustment (or even massage) without prior x-rays. My friend who is a massage therapist used to massage my elderly lab mix who had serious arthritis and that dog really, really benefitted from the simple massages. The results were noticeable. He’s young and doesn’t have arthritis, but maybe a even just a few expert massages.

[mommy_peanut]

Sounds like you have a good handle on his needs
Best of luck & this whole thread is worthless with out PICTURES!!!

[alto]

[QUOTE=Coyoteco;7533071]
He’s been to the vet, and been examined by a couple of vets over the past few months. I don’t think he needs more genetic tests. [/QUOTE]
who is suggesting further genetic testing??? I suggested that the current DM test is limited, as a homozygous positive does not necessarily develop any symptoms of DM … your dog sounds as if something is going on- hopefully it is just lack of muscle strength BUT I’d do X-rays to see what’s there.

I’d especially do X-rays if you’re going to be doing chiro.

Dog will very likely benefit from physical therapy but I’d want to rule out any hip dysplasia - it can also impact dog’s movement in the ways that you report.

I agree with mommy peanut on the pictures :yes:

[SquishTheBunny]

double post

[SquishTheBunny]

Well its good to hear the chances of DM are low.

German Sheps are difficult to assess when they have hind end weakness bcause there are so many disease processes that can affect them:

Hip Dysplasia (#1)
DM
LS Disease
Cauda Equina
Congenital Spinal malformation
IVDD
Wobblers
Other Myelopathy
Nerve sheath tumor

I think, if you haven’t already, is get a good hip radiographs. From this, the LS area can be assessed as well as the hip. You would be surprised how bad hips can lead to a funky gait, without “pain” being obvious. That’s probably the cheapest and most useful next step.

The others based on your dogs signalment are probably very low on the list, thankfully

I would DEFINITELY have him radiographed before chiropractic work (massage should be fine). I just did an MRI on a dog today who has been going to a chiropractor for 3 months for hind end weakness (owners wanted to do chiro before any other diagnostics) - ended up that this dog has a huge spinal tumor, 3 months ago it was likely removable but now it is too invasive.

[Coyoteco]

Thanks for all of the good information. I found some videos of DE dogs and that is not the same. I’ll look into SquishtheBunny’s list and follow up with a vet. He has gained a lot of muscle in his hind end since he’s been here. He had the thinnest back legs when he arrived. Below the hocks they have literally doubled in size with additional muscle and the other parts of his legs are continuing to build up. Thanks!