DNA testing for JC papers?

[Showjumper28]

Is it true the do a DNA test in order to prove pedigree when issueing Jockey Club papers?

If yes, is there a way to fake the test? By this I mean, a vet that might pull another horses DNA and send it in for another?

The reason I am asking is, I have a gelding who is tattoo and papered, but has several traits of draft horses. He is not just overly and unusually large (including his draft sized and shaped feet) he also grows full feathers and he has an autoimmune disease that is only prevalent in draft horses. Can any think of an explanation for this? I should mention that everyone, including the vet, thought he was a warmblood or a TB/draft cross the first time they see him. The autoimmune disease is really throwing us for a loop.

[Laurierace]

I guess anything is possible, but no in general they can not “fake” a DNA test. It has to match both the sire and dam. Not to mention why on earth would anyone want to race a draft cross against TBs? I would bet the farm your guy is exactly who his tattoo says he is.

[Acertainsmile]

You also need a stallion certificate when you register… and since it is all done via live cover, I dont really see how it could be done…but I guess there is always a chance that there is someone somewhere doing something they shouldnt be doing.

[Showjumper28]

I was just wondering if maybe there was some kind of hanky panky back in the blood lines somewhere? How long ago did they start doing the DNA testing?

I agree though… way try and race that combo… Sigh I just do not know where this horse came from…

[Evalee_Hunter]

How old is your horse? For TB foals of 2000 & before, blood typing, not DNA typing, was used. But, DNA typing was started in 2001 & implimented rapidly, with active stallions getting DNA typed around 1999 or 2000 in preparation for matching to the foals born of the future breedings. Mares were also DNA typed around that time.

Another thought: Is your horse known to be TB? Many & varied breeds are tattooed for identification, including STBs, Arabians, QHs, etc. Sometimes horses are tattooed simply for identification. If you do not have his papers & have not run his tattoo past the TRPB or JC, then perhaps he is not TB.

For DNA typing, no vet is required. The owner pulls the hair & sends it in. For blood typing, a vet pulled the blood.

There was lots of room for hanky-panky prior to blood typing, but it makes no sense to introduce “cold blood” into a horse where speed is desired.

[Showjumper28]

I have his papers from the Jockey Club. I do not know what else to say other than I am baffled. I guess he is just a freak of nature?

[Evalee_Hunter]

[QUOTE=Showjumper28;3332594]
I have his papers from the Jockey Club. I do not know what else to say other than I am baffled. I guess he is just a freak of nature?[/QUOTE]

OK, fine. I am assuming his tatoo matches his papers? I asked whether you knew he was a TB because I took your quote below just too literally.

@Showjumper28;3332540

. . . . Sigh I just do not know where this horse came from…

I read somewhere once that “Man 'o War’s grand-dam was a cart horse”. As far as I can find out, she was a TB, although she may have been a cart-pulling TB. I don’t know the truth, just one of those weird memories that pops up at a time like this.

[Showjumper28]

Yup, his tatoo matches his papers. I was just wondering if maybe someone bred a cross into the line somewhere (for size?) and maybe he is a throw back? I wish I could just figure him out.

[War_Admiral]

Is your horse an Irish TB by any chance?

I have always held this theory - based on no scientific data whatsoever, mind you :lol: - that the Irish sneaked a little more cart horse into the TB stud book for a little bit longer than most other countries did.

[Bacchus]

Those Irish TBs are a big “draftier,” aren’t they!

[Sing_Mia_Song]

What is your horse’s TB name? I can look to see if his parentage was verified by DNA.

[summerhorse]

Can you post a picture of the horse somewhere? As pointed out if he matches his papers it’s unlikely he has anything else in him (close up). He’s probably just from a bigger, coarser bloodline. The only way anything could have been faked was for foals to get mixed up after registration and the wrong foal got the tatoo. But I can’t imagine any farm doing this accidently or on purpose with a full Tb and a Draft/TB mix.

What is the autoimmune disease? I don’t think that just because it is most common in drafts means it can’t occur in other breeds (except for actual breed specific ones like HYPP).

[vineyridge]

No offense, but it’s possible that a rotten horse trader got a set of papers and found a horse with similar markings and applied a tattoo to make the ringer look more authentic. That has been known to happen.

Is this a race horse?

Have you talked to the TRPB or the JC about him? If you have identity questions, the TRPB (Thoroughbred Racing Protective Bureau) would be the people to contact since they do the tattooing and also do a detailed description of every identifying mark at the time of tattooing. I would think they, in particular, would be extremely interested in a possible ringer.

[findeight]

Well…you never know. If a teaser stud got a little overly affectionate? If something did get over the proverbial back fence? If another stud got loose and into a mares pasture? If the mare got loose and went across the road to where a stud was pastured? You think ANYBODY responsible for either of the horses would fess up?

Not a chance.

Look how many show mares who supposedly lead a chaste and well supervised exsistance with no studs on the property that popped out unexpected foals-even in show stalls. Think anybody ever will admit what happened? Because something did and somebody knows. But they ain’t talking.

Even know of a double registered AQHA/Palomino show champion bred to an AQHA mega champion who had a friggin MULE. Nobody knew a thing about it at either the training barn or breeding farm. Somewhere there is one sneaky jack that knows, who isn’t talking either.

Anyway, all is not always as written on registration papers. Draft on a TB would not have been on purpose but is certainly possible and probably not the only time it ever happened.

Probably not real close up and well before any DNA or blood type was required. But possible.

[Laurierace]

[QUOTE=findeight;3341949]
Well…you never know. If a teaser stud got a little overly affectionate? If something did get over the proverbial back fence? If another stud got loose and into a mares pasture? If the mare got loose and went across the road to where a stud was pastured? You think ANYBODY responsible for either of the horses would fess up?

Not a chance.

Look how many show mares who supposedly lead a chaste and well supervised exsistance with no studs on the property that popped out unexpected foals-even in show stalls. Think anybody ever will admit what happened? Because something did and somebody knows. But they ain’t talking.

Even know of a double registered AQHA/Palomino show champion bred to an AQHA mega champion who had a friggin MULE. Nobody knew a thing about it at either the training barn or breeding farm. Somewhere there is one sneaky jack that knows, who isn’t talking either.

Anyway, all is not always as written on registration papers. Draft on a TB would not have been on purpose but is certainly possible and probably not the only time it ever happened.

Probably not real close up and well before any DNA or blood type was required. But possible.[/QUOTE]

Ok lets say that actually happened. Ol Dobbin took a break from plowing the field and made a little TB cross. TB cross was passed off as the real thing. Went to the track and got his ass whooped repeatedly. Not exactly the kind of horse people would be rushing to breed their mares to spawing future generations of Dobbin crosses.
The resulting foal would be such a poor race horse there is no way it would perpetuate in the stud book to this day. Nobody tries to breed crappy racehorses, some are just crappy in spite of their pedigree.

[LivviesMom]

I would think that Even if say the mare was covered within a few days by two different studs it would still likely get caught in the registration process as the foals DNA MUST match the Sire and Dam that are reported. So if mare was pregnant by the non TB stud… it would not match…