Do barns really want clients like me? (DIY Adult Ammy)

[Kaucos]

So I’m a DIY Adult Ammy. Spent my junior years as a working student showing rated hunters, and switched to eventing for a little while as it was cheaper/more appealing to the DIY type. But I’m thinking I might want to circle back and go back to the hunter/jumper scene as I feel I would thrive better staying…inside the ring.

I want to progress, I want to buy a fancy prospect. Happy to pay the coaching fee at shows. I would prefer to board offsite and trailer in for lessons. But boarding onsite isn’t off the table. Haul myself to shows, braid, clean my own stalls, etc. I’m not super interested in paying for misc. barn splits, tack stalls, grooms, or anything that I’m not using. I do want to do the big shows and can easily go to any venue for any amount of time. (I’m a travel nurse so I already have a new home base every few months.) Would like to go south for the winter.

My question is, am I the type of client that barns are happy to have? Is it even possible to find what I’m looking for in a program?

[MadTrotter]

So just to clarify…you just want to pay for lessons/coaching and possibly a fee to source a horse? And possibly board but not be “in a program”?

What stage of the process are you in?

[Kaucos]

Essentially, yes. Probably 1x or 2x a week for lessons.

I don’t currently own (my horse passed a few weeks ago), and I’m in the process of moving across the country. Once settled the plan is to get back into regular lessons with a trainer and start shopping.

[punchy]

@Kaucos

My question is, am I the type of client that barns are happy to have? Is it even possible to find what I’m looking for in a program?

Not really. You may find a special barn that has a special place for you, but it wouldn’t be the norm. Even the low key places that used to humor DIY ammies are turning towards the pre-paid, all inclusive, get-with-the-program model. I’ve basically fallen off the local-scene radar because of it. I’ve endured bullying because of it. I’ve had people who I thought were my friends turn their backs on me, close ranks, and act like I have some kind of infectious disease. I had barely one foot in the door and one out and then quit showing when covid hit; removed my remaining foot from the door and haven’t looked back.

Sorry for the rant. Pros make their money at shows and I was always willing to pay for splits etc. even if I wasn’t using what I was paying for. I was paying and tipping and helping out to smooth the road for some independence but there came a point when that wasn’t good enough. If you don’t want to pay, then you’ll be even more persona non grata.

[fivestrideline]

It depends.

Most barns that have a program are going to want you in that program - even if it’s a very loose definition of “program”. What you might look for is a super low key place that does local shows and hits a few As with a handful of clients (or, often, just one). These typically have some sort of structure that you’ll need to conform to - usually lessons and show splits - but if you find one with a BO or trainer that has similar views on horse care, you’ll be fine.

These are rare. These are even more rare if you’re looking to source high quality already going horses or show at the top levels. Going the green route and staying mostly regional with a few trips to WEC or wef or Devon? Doable.

You have two options: find a trainer that you can haul in or meet at shows, or find a program you agree with and let go of some control. I’m like you, a well qualified (as far as care goes) amateur who just doesn’t fit into most hunter programs due to my skill set and need to be hands on. I board at a private place with no trainer and haul out, and as a control freak I’m much happier. I can pick my farrier, my vet, my feed, my shows, and my gear. I’ve sacrificed facilities and some progress as a rider for general enjoyment of my horses.

How are your relationships with pros from your past? Are any of them local? Even ones you just saw at the in-gate and have on Facebook? They are your best bet for sourcing a horse without being in the barn. They are also going to be the ones that might bend their rules a bit and let you haul in for lessons or meet them at shows. They know you aren’t entirely insane, and you might be surprised how many would take on a nice, considerate and low maintenance client at shows. Trying to come in as a stranger and make all these exceptions is a little harder.

TL;DR here is I think you’re going to get a lot of defeated negativity on this thread, because it is frustrating how the game has changed from even 10 years ago (let alone the 90s or earlier). If you can manage your expectations, figure out what parts of having horses are most important to you and what you can let go, and learn how to be a non-invasive non-traditional client, you might just find the perfect place.

[Foxglove]

@punchy has a good take on this question. Our experience was similar. Youngest lucked into a super horse at age 15 and we had the time and $ to do the big 3-Day shows around the Eastern US for about 10 years (kid grew up, horse grew old, life moved on). While we were living the 3-Day life, we kept horse at our farm, and hauled to various trainers for lessons. In the winter, horse went to trainers to improve and keep up his skills. In the spring, back to the show circuit and horse came home. We, as a family, did all the horse related showing work --expecting only coaching on site from the current trainer/instructor.

We found that the “in house” students who boarded at the trainer’s barn, paid for hauling, stayed with the trainer on site or nearby received the lion’s share of attention at shows. Despite the fact that we paid our share of the trainer’s fee --it was clear our kiddo did not receive an equal amount of attention or coaching. Me being me, at an appropriate moment (not at the venue) I pointed this out -and was told that since our kiddo had her parents on site, and the other riders did not, the coach felt his/her attention was needed more by the other riders (talking about hand holding before classes, pep-talks after showing, extra course walking, etc). To my husband, who attended with us, this was viewed as favoritism. He particularly was cross when he had to go find a certain coach to be with our kid at the start box —fellow was seated on a hay bale chatting with another student who didn’t have a run until the afternoon (this was much earlier, the fellow should have been at the start box with our kid).

We always made it clear what we expected from the coach --even so the amount of time spent with our kiddo at venues was less. When she was younger, kid felt “left out” of various stable endeavors hosted by and for the boarding students --making posters for each other and the coach to put on stalls at shows, scrapbook parties to paste pictures of horses into scrapbooks --etc.

However, I expect there was a bit of envy on the part of the in-house students that kiddo had both her parents involved and at every show (DH is great with horses --owned a race horse as a teenager and trained with an uncle).

So my point is that it will always be unfair because people view things differently. After 10 years, kid went to law school (sold her young horse to pay for it, super horse retired with me). She now rides as an ‘in house’ student on a lovely mare, although she hauls her own horse. Her coach is on site, with other students, but she makes sure she has his attention when she needs it.

[clanter]

I believe It could be done but it sure takes a lot of logistics.

My daughter is doing what has been outlined (not specifically HJ world but in sport horse world) . She has a close professional relationship with a renowned/respected trainer while she keeps her horses here at home. She will transport the horses to his place when she has hit a point that she needs advise.

As for shows, my family has been showing for coming on four decades and most all of the show managers are known friends. This relationship has allowed daughter to arrange her stalls to be next her trainer’s stabling. If one did not no, they would assume they were one stable area however daughter’s are independent.

Also, at larges shows there is never enough help for the big barns to get client horses in/out/taken care, daughter will assist trainer’s staff

And of course it helps that daughter’s horses usually place well in their classes or championships those awards are then are added to the trainer’s display which attracts prospective clients attention. (last year when her young horse won a special championship the trainer Moved him into a prominent stall from daughter’s area so that He could be displayed along with his pile of awards)

[trubandloki]

I am confused how this will work if you are moving so frequently. Are you going to be looking for a new trainer in a new area every time you move? Are you moving your horse every time you move?

[fivestrideline]

@trubandloki

I am confused how this will work if you are moving so frequently. Are you going to be looking for a new trainer in a new area every time you move? Are you moving your horse every time you move?

Oh I missed THAT entirely. That changes things.

I’m interested in the logistics here, too, OP.

[Arzny]

OP, I am a pro turned ammy and very successfully do what you are describing. I think it requires a certain level of competence, so that you are not stressing the trainer at every show and lesson with your turnout / riding etc.

You should expect less handholding than the in house clients. After all, the horse is in your program, not the trainers. I don’t pay show splits or grooms fees, but I also ask for absolutely zero. I don’t use their tack stall / hose / fly spray / ask the grooms to drop breakfast etc. I bring someone who can set jumps in warmup.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Another vote for “it depends but…”

I was at a (largely) hunter barn that had a few clients like this–would come in for lessons/get coaching at shows. But you’re not going to be the same level of priority as clients in the program. You might protest, “I’m paying the same coaching fee as X,” but from the POV of the trainer, the other client is more economically significant and is “locked in” to the program in a way you are not–you can walk any time, cancel your lessons and say, “thanks don’t need your coaching anymore,” versus someone on training board.

It depends on the horse, but one client I saw with a very green pony that might not have been the best fit for their kid–the trainer is going to have the mentality that “if the client was in my program, the horse wouldn’t be having X issue,” and that can affect the quality of advice. Even if it is or is not true, from a trainer’s bias/ perspective, especially in the hunters, having more control over the horse is seen as more beneficial.

To not be a TOTAL downer–if you’re a haul-in client who can hang out at a lower-key show barn (even if not boarding), ride some of the greener horses when the rest of the barn is away, and be helpful at shows, and you win a lot and make the barn look good–you might be able to establish a beneficial relationship.

The comment about not contributing to splits, however, and stuff like that, might still get dicey with other boarders showing.

I’m not saying this is fair or not, just what I’ve seen.

[saturnalian]

I had the exact same experience as @Foxglove’s daughter did, but with a children’s hunter on the A’s with two trainers who had their own barns and full programs. We could never afford to be “in-house” AND show, so we boarded at a private barn and hauled in for lessons and shows. Lessons were totally fine. At shows, we were stalled completely separately and basically just met the trainer at the ring. I was completely left out from any sort of barn goings-on and no one ever tried to include me in anything. At my last show before I leased my horse out, I had scrimped every penny I possibly could so I could be “in the program” during the show - stall with them, pay the splits, have the trainer show him during the week… I just wanted to feel included.
I still was not and was still treated as an outsider, had to do all my own grooming while the other kids didn’t and got to hang out in the lounge set up together, etc. The only consolation I got was I was allowed to use a general barn cooler to and from the ring, and now I have a picture of me and him forever immortalized with that cooler draped over him as we left the rings for the last time, me crying on his neck thinking I’d never be rich enough to give him all he deserved… sigh! Everyone just thought I was crying because it was my last show with him. I let them believe it. I’m so glad I’m not a kid anymore.

My best showing year was after he came back from lease and I found a trainer who didn’t really have her own program and met most clients at home for lessons/shows. She had the results to back everything up. There was no one to stall with, no one to feel excluded from, no one to be reasonably favourited over, no unknown expectations you weren’t meeting. She was way more communicative and flexible given the fact all her clients hauled in themselves on their own schedules. I don’t know if those trainers still exist out there, but I would definitely try to find one in your case if you have the facilities at home for lessoning!

[NoSuchPerson]

It depends, like others have already said. You would be very welcome at the barn I’m at. The BO/trainer prefers to focus on her own horses and her own showing. She is happy to take us along to shows and give us lessons when we request, but the more independent we are, the happier she is.

She has had clients in the past who haul in for lessons, meet us at shows, and pay for coaching at the shows, but handle all their own show arrangements.

[cbg]

I do exactly this and have for a number of years. I board at a small, private barn and spend the winter in FL. I haul my own horses and do my own care at the shows. I have two, sometimes three, horses who are often in the same classes so I bring a groom, but with just one I could probably manage fine on my own.

I have several pros who will help me at the ring. I know what shows each goes to and connect with one or another prior and make arrangements for coaching at the show. I can also ship in for lessons with all of them and I do take advantage of the dressage and other trainers my barn owner has come in to coach her at home.

The first trick is finding a barn that’ll let you DIY it, but still provides the level of care and the level of facilities you’re looking for. The other trick is scheduling. I work from home as a consultant, and have a lot of flexibility in how much work I take on and when it gets done. So I can be at the barn whenever to ride, meet the farrier or vet, or take care of anything that needs taking care of.

If you don’t have this kind of flexibility, I’m guessing being so DIY might prove challenging. The other thing that might be difficult is finding the right situation (be it a barn where you can DIY or even a full-care program) every few months in each new location. It definitely takes some time and effort to find the right place, and the best ones are - for good reason - generally full with a waiting list.

[FromTheGalaxy]

I’m one of these types of clients and have been pretty much my whole riding career, but especially since moving my horses home in 2019. I will say that I find this kind of set up to be much easier and more common in an eventing space rather than h/j.

I think the biggest contributor to my ability to do this is that 1. I am very independent and able to be successful at a show without much hand holding from a trainer, so I don’t mind if I get less attention than the “in program” clients, and 2. There aren’t many big trainers in my area with large established programs. There are a few that have a handful of clients that board, train, and go to shows with them, but they are also usually happy for the additional income of having the occasional haul in lesson or client join them for just one show.

I think you would likely be less welcomed at a bigger barn that attends lots of A shows and has a large group of students they take with them to every show. I think it is easier for those trainers to have all their clients in their “program” and pay all the costs associated with that, rather than have to deal with the single odd man out that wants to DIY things. But if you can find a smaller trainer that maybe attends fewer shows with fewer clients, you may be able to make it work.

[StormyDay]

@Kaucos

So I’m a DIY Adult Ammy. Spent my junior years as a working student showing rated hunters, and switched to eventing for a little while as it was cheaper/more appealing to the DIY type. But I’m thinking I might want to circle back and go back to the hunter/jumper scene as I feel I would thrive better staying…inside the ring.

I want to progress, I want to buy a fancy prospect. Happy to pay the coaching fee at shows. I would prefer to board offsite and trailer in for lessons. But boarding onsite isn’t off the table. Haul myself to shows, braid, clean my own stalls, etc. I’m not super interested in paying for misc. barn splits, tack stalls, grooms, or anything that I’m not using. I do want to do the big shows and can easily go to any venue for any amount of time. (I’m a travel nurse so I already have a new home base every few months.) Would like to go south for the winter.

My question is, am I the type of client that barns are happy to have? Is it even possible to find what I’m looking for in a program?

I have clients who board offsite and trailer in for lessons. Currently all of them show on their own, but I’d have zero problem having them come to shows with the rest of us. I’d charge a training fee for the day and a groom fee, because inevitably the grooms will have to do something for them (set jumps, hold horse, polish boots before you go in the ring, etc)

I would assume that when you go south there will be more fees involved. Doing local shows is one thing, doing out of town shows is a whole different animal.

[Kaucos]

@fivestrideline & @trubandloki - I mostly stay “local” with about an hour-two hour commute (3 days a week), horse would stay in the same spot other than going south for the winter.
My contracts are 13 weeks, so I could stay near a show venue for their 12-week circuit. But that’s not really ideal nor the goal.

Edited to add that: One of the main reasons I would want to board onsite would be to have a weekly training ride maybe so that I’m not riding on days that I’m working. But I can find the energy to do it myself if that means having more independence than what a full-blown program normally entails.

@StormyDay - I’d be more than willing to pay (+ tip!) for grooms that I use, and obviously, going south would be much pricier. I for sure want to show with a barn, I don’t have someone who could help me show by myself. I also don’t have enough horses for it to be worth paying a groom (maybe someday!)

[Kaucos]

I will for sure look into some smaller programs. I’m moving near a large show venue, so someone who only shows locally would likely still be doing A rated shows at that venue. I’m also pretty far south so WEC Ocala/WEF aren’t horribly far away either.

I also don’t mind if I’m not getting as much attention as any other client. But some help in the warm up, plus a couple reminders or an encouraging voice from a trainer is nice. Maybe just the comfort of having a coach there when I do need it.

[Ponyplusaninch]

I know these situations are out there because I’ve seen them in action, for better or for worse. The best situations I saw went one of two ways:

1. They either did their thing at home and then had the horse in a trainer’s program at shows or
2. They kept their horse entirely separate from the barn and turned up at the warm-up ring, ready to ride with the trainer at the time the trainer asked them to be ready.

The last two barns I’ve been at have always been friendly when others join us for the shows and not at home. We always watch them go and cheer for them and their progress. I guess YMMV

Remember that the reason a lot of these barns have programs and ask that you are part of the program at shows is because it takes a lot of coordination to have 20+ horses and riders (and parents!) all get the right amount of attention and get around the ring successfully. It’s important to understand how you and your horse can fit into that harmoniously if you’re doing all your own care, warmups, etc.

Years ago, back when DIY was more common, I will never forgot at my old barn a lady who came to the barn every so often to lesson but mainly did their own thing at home. They decided to meet us at a show one summer. It was jam-packed; overflowing tents and new rings had to be opened up. Trainer had a schedule and told this person when they needed to be ready. Person said “well I need to do such-and-such with Pookie for Pookie to be ready to go,” and trainer was like “that’s totally fine; be ready by BLANK.” Person didn’t get done what they needed to do with Pookie and was almost 30 min late to the ring. At that point, trainer had to move on. Dramatic row ensued. I felt the worst for the horse, because he didn’t deserve to be caught between two screaming individuals.

So all that to say, I think you can likely find a good program/trainer that’s willing to work with you, but be sure there’s a lot of upfront communication about what’s expected. And it’s always a good idea to lead the conversation with “what do you prefer/how does your program run.” You’ll get a real good feel very quickly of who’s likely to work with you vs. being stuck in a rigid way.

[Madison]

@Kaucos

I want to progress, I want to buy a fancy prospect. Happy to pay the coaching fee at shows. I would prefer to board offsite and trailer in for lessons. But boarding onsite isn’t off the table. Haul myself to shows, braid, clean my own stalls, etc. I’m not super interested in paying for misc. barn splits, tack stalls, grooms, or anything that I’m not using. I do want to do the big shows and can easily go to any venue for any amount of time. (I’m a travel nurse so I already have a new home base every few months.) Would like to go south for the winter.

My question is, am I the type of client that barns are happy to have? Is it even possible to find what I’m looking for in a program?

If a barn has to choose between you and a client who is going to be fully part of the program, it isn’t hard to guess which one they would prefer. Also, the frequent moves would be unappealing if they could have given that stall to someone who intends to stay. That said, there are plenty of trainers willing to coach people who trailer in for lessons and meet them at shows. But, I think the key will be for you not to blur the lines - be in the program and embrace all that comes with it, or just use the coaching services. Stable on your own at shows, and meet the trainer at the ring - if you stable with them, it’s hard to avoid including you in the splits, and other clients may not understand why you weren’t included. But if you communicate up front and keep it to just the coaching, there’s no reason you can’t find someone to do what you are looking for.