I have been thinking along these lines too. The full service show barns in my area are not really appealing to me, with limited turnout and high costs. I know of several riders in my area who board at home, trailer in for lessons and meet their trainer at shows. I don’t board at home, but I board at a non-HJ facility which meets all the criteria for me as far as facility, turnout, care and lack of snobbery. The key is finding a trainer who is going to be enthusiastic about training you. I feel like I have been brushed off by a couple of trainers who seem to be focused on their full service programs. So I will keep on searching and let it roll off my back, just the nature of the biz.
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I dunno, that’s kind of how we make our living???
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I don’t think most trainers make $$$ of board and lessons, they make it off of shows and commissions. So if you are going to pay the commission and go to lots of shows you might make some trainers very happy. Many trainers won’t want you doing self care at shows, but some will. You just need to find the right fit
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This was my thinking - as an amateur who ships in for lessons and shows, I don’t cost the trainer much in overhead, so it would make sense to me that this set up would actually be great for many trainers. In reality, I don’t think many see it this way.
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I think maybe the better way to look at it is that trainers don’t make enough money from JUST boarding and lessons. Sure, shipping in is no overhead profit, but having a sustainable, reliable income depends on getting to shows regularly with clients who reliably give you a large sum of money on a monthly basis. That’s your full training clients and that starts with boarding.
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Honestly, every program has a different way they make money. The show barn I ride at basically breaks even on all of it bc they have so much staff, but they make their profit on commissions buying very expensive horses. Others I’ve ridden with charge a fortune for training and then charge less for commissions. The barn where my young horse is at has a trainer who doesn’t even charge a day fee at the shows and I honestly wonder how she makes any money.
I think some of it too is that you’re locked in with a trainer when you board with them, the switching costs are higher. And then they have really clear line of sight into all aspects of the horse and your progress. When they bring you to the ring, they have a pretty good idea what’s going to happen.
For a lot of them, how they think of themselves at the end of the day is dependent on what happens when you go in the ring. There are other professionals who don’t care nearly as much what their peers think. So for them, getting a little extra money for a lesson here and there is good enough. They aren’t worried about their reputation if you go out there and make bad mistakes, you’re not wearing their barn saddle pad etc.
I’ve been all the ammies, the blind booster of the pro and the program, the DIY ammie, the invested in the horse’s care ammie in a program. For sure, you cannot expect the trainer to be as invested in you when you’re not as invested in them. In my experience, being easy and organized goes a long long way with any professional. Having a good reputation locally sure doesn’t hurt either.
I fully recognize I am a more annoying client to have because I have strong opinions on things like feeding and training, having been in different programs over the years and having dealt with ulcers and other horse care issues. I try to make up for it by being coachable, on-time, and as respectful as possible. and doing as much as I can in the form of questions rather than demands.
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Well said!!
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I think this is a huge part of it for a lot of trainers. What goes on with a client & horse when they’re standing at the back gate or by the schooling jump is one of the main forms of marketing for the vast majority of show-focused pros. I mean, every time someone posts a thread to ask for barn recs, the COTH standard advice is “go to a nearby show and watch to see who looks like a good fit.”
Lots of outside observers watching a trainer school a client wouldn’t automatically be able to tell who’s a full-time program ammy and who’s DIY-ing it and meeting the pro at the ring. So the pro is not only getting way less money from a DIYer vs a training client, they’re also adding some opportunity risk of losing out on future income into the mix.
That being said, the flipside is also true. If you’re a DIY ammy who reliably shows up on time with a shiny horse in good weight, correct turnout/equipment and rides at an appropriate level for your division, that’s a plus for a trainer. They didn’t have to put in the time and effort to prep you to their standard, you just came that way. So the coaching fees you pay become more attractive.
I’ve never been full-time DIY but I have met up with barns at shows before, both just for coaching at the ring and stabling with them/paying their day fees etc. Ultimately, all the barns I’ve done this with invited me back anytime because my horse and I always “looked the part” and came ready to work. I think going a bit above and beyond in your presentation at the beginning makes a big difference—e.g., if you’re meeting up on schooling day, wear tan breeches, a collared shirt, extra-clean tack, plain saddle pad, shiny boots, etc., even though it’s not required, just to show that you know what’s up.
If you’re on time or even early, realistic about what your horse needs for prep, and willing to try their suggestions, even if it’s not what you’d normally do (within reason, obviously), I think most pros would be much more interested in having you as a ship-in client.
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It depends. I have found it to be no problem when you are upfront to the trainer about what your goals are, how you want to be part of their program etc.
I have done your type of situation with many different trainers. They understand that I have my horses in my care at my farm and I trailer in for lessons weekly ( sometimes multiple times) and I either will trailer in to local shows or I will meet them at the out of town shows.
I will say, if you are stabling, you really can’t get out of the splits, trainer costs etc at shows. But local shows where I’m not stabling and just trailering in, that really doesn’t apply and I just pay for my training fees.
But again, this is all based on discussions I’ve had with the trainers. And I have found the ones that work best for what I’m looking for and that I can learn from. I haven’t found that they aren’t any less receptive to training me or whatever and it’s great. I also found times where it didn’t work, no bad feelings, just not going to work for what I need and are looking for.
As a poster above says, go above and beyond- always be on time or early. Always show up looking the part. Always be willing to lend a hand if you can
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Hmm… I think the programs where an arrangement like this could work are more casual than what you have in mind. You would either find the program itself to be limiting (too casual), or you would feel your access to the program was limited (too exclusive).
Right now, I live in an h/j hot spot. It’s hard to find barns that AREN’T elite show barns. And I can say, from my experience, what you’re describing would be pretty disappointing. Not saying you couldn’t find it. You probably could, especially with the right connections. But you will have a hard time striking the right balance between maintaining control of the things you are comfortable DIY’ing and getting the coaching and training you feel you’re paying for.
I’m kind of in that situation right now and it’s been a let down. If I could hit rewind and do this over, I would have stayed at the backyard barn I was at before and found a pro I could pay to come to me. If you try to board at a nicer barn and negotiate a kind of “a la carte” service, you’re going to feel like a second-class citizen. Unfortunately, I just didn’t have enough confidence in my ability to DIY beyond the basics, but that was dumb. I could have channeled my resources into bringing in trainers to help get me to that level instead of paying to board at the fancy show barn and not being able to take advantage of being there.
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Yes. There are still a few places out there that want peeps like you, though if you show with the barn you’ll still need to split fees as that’s only fair. 
This is huge. As a trainer I’d be happy to meet a client at shows provided that client had their shit together. That sounds great, I enjoy training and I enjoy showing so why wouldn’t I do more? Make the trainers job easy and you will a well liked addition to the show routine (ps: this goes for full time clients too)
If you’re gonna show up with horse in a mess, 10 mins late, not knowing your spot in the order with a snorting monster at the ingate wondering where the hoof polish is and if you could borrow a crop, some fly spray and a tube of perfect prep… nah. (This is what trainers fear most)
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This is a general comment and not aimed at anyone specifically. In a very basic sense this boils down to “If I don’t want to do what a program does, are they going to want me” and the answer is “probably not.” The more you can compromise to be less of a square peg in a round hole, the easier things are going to be to make it a “fit.” If the program is full care and you want to do EVERYTHING yourself, why would they want you there but also why would you want to be there? It’s like going to a burger restaurant and being annoyed they don’t serve pad thai. Ultimately you need to find a program that matches your needs and that may require some compromise. It’s a little unreasonable to expect that compromise to be entirely on the program’s part.
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vxf111 - your post here is pretty much my thoughts exactly and was about to write a similar post.
To add, I know where I am there are plenty of trainers who have ship in clients for lessons and meet them at shows. I don’t know whether those clients stable by themselves or with the trainer’s barns. For me personally, I would want to stable with the trainer as part of the fun of showing is also the camaraderie and supporting each other.
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I think it is a rarity to be able to do this. Overall, it is not a great model for a trainer. There is less $$ involved for them. Also, many trainers take very seriously how they are represented in the show ring by their clients. They are not willing to risk having a client waste their time by showing up unprepared or by not following instructions or having cut corners.
Most clients do not have the experience to get a horse prepared for the show ring at a rated show. It takes a lot of nuanced knowledge and judgement to have a horse optimized for the show ring, more than just a series of weekly lessons ahead of time. A young horse might need hand walking and longeing as well as morning schooling sessions or hacks. It can be a LONG day making sure a young horse is attended to adequately at a show. You can’t expect to just feed twice a day and ride once and for things to go well. You also have to be savvy about double checking ring schedules and get yourself signed up in the jumping order early or late as your coach requests.
I’m not saying YOU don’t have this experience or wouldn’t be able to do this, only that a trainer might be reluctant to trust that you could. If you want to convince a trainer to do this, I would first establish a regular training relationship with the trainer in question, with a young horse probably more than one lesson a week. Demonstrate your competence by showing up for every lesson on time (a smidge early) with your horse groomed to the nines, clean tack and boots, and all equipment in order, as well as having extra items on hand in case needed (a longe line, spurs, etc.) At every lesson, have your horse mentally prepared to work. It’s fine if your young horse has a distractible or naughty day. It’s not fine to say, “sorry, I haven’t ridden him in two days so he’s a bit fresh.”
Also, it’s important to convey that you fully “buy in” to the coach’s program and are respectful about following your coach’s advice.
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This is how I have found it to work:
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The ammy needs to be very self-sufficient, and that often comes from having had the experience of working in a good program. I think the sport might be running low on these “good ammies” since so many people today grow up as clients that were kept at arm’s length by the pros who enjoyed having professional grooms and riders around.
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The ammy has put in the time required to haul in to the pro’s barn so as to learn their system and improve. No one wants to try to fix a lot of big issues in the schooling ring at a show.
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You have to be ok with whatever level of inclusion the rest of the barn decides to use. If you see this as just a professional relationship between you and the pro. Know that the pro doesn’t have enough bandwidth to worry about social stuff between clients.
I live in an area that has lots of people caring for their horses at home. There are also some full care programs. I was talking to one of the pros there (while being paid to do some work for him there) and I asked him about his haul-in clients. I expected him to love the fact that he didn’t have to do the whole loss-leader thing of boarding clients’ horses and shoveling sh!t in order to have them around for the shows fees and the buying/selling commissions. He said that he really didn’t like the DIY people because they tended to not put in the training time at home to get results. I suppose that should not have been surprising. But he also mentioned the problem of the person who just meets him at shows, whether or not they had ridden with him consistently/recently, produces a lackluster performance and tells everyone that he’s their trainer. I see how that DIY ammy would have said that and not realized that it mattered that their horse wasn’t prepared. And/or maybe they had never had a horse in a program, so they didn’t know what progress or brokeness or fitness or whatever really looked like. I thought he’d like the “no muss, no fuss” money of this client. I hadn’t considered how much responsibility he felt for the so-so performance that he logically knew wasn’t his product, but which he felt others would judge.
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I live in an area where a number of riders have hobby farm properties. I have seen the haul in clients stable with the trainer’s barn. If it’s a local show, people DIY it; for a rated show, rider either brings their own groom or coordinates with trainer’s barn to share a groom. I agree with you that the camaraderie and “atmosphere” of the barn at a show is so important! As a somewhat nervous ammy who has not shown a ton, a supportive environment is key!
I think the OP would be more welcome as a DIY Ammy if she went back to eventing given some of the replies here.
“Most clients do not have the experience to get a horse prepared for the show ring at a rated show. It takes a lot of nuanced knowledge and judgement to have a horse optimized for the show ring, more than just a series of weekly lessons ahead of time. A young horse might need hand walking and longeing as well as morning schooling sessions or hacks. It can be a LONG day making sure a young horse is attended to adequately at a show. You can’t expect to just feed twice a day and ride once and for things to go well.”
I think it’s really going to depend on the Ammy you’re talking about and the show. I do all of those things totally by myself in eventing and dressage (and HJ shows although it’s been a few years and I only did those locally) even sometimes taking more than one horse. I learned how to handle myself and my horse at shows under the care of someone more experienced than I was who taught me how to not show up looking homeless and how to properly prep my horse as needed. This includes things like cleaning my own stall, hand walking, when to feed, getting to the ring on time and looking the part, etc. Although I am older and smarter and no longer purchase horses that need extensive prep.
Would I need someone experienced at a bigger show I wasn’t familiar with? It certainly wouldn’t hurt! If I went to a rated HJ show I’d want someone with me who could show me that show’s details and possibly someone to set fences for me or put my name in with the gate steward, although I learned how to be assertive about staking my place at the ingate over time.
I think people who learned in the same environment I did, not dependent on a trainer, but with someone going 'you can’t show up with a dirty horse" adapt easily.
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Truth! Although fully noted that the h/jers who had this experience are getting fewer and farther between.
Which is especially sad for the discipline when you know that the majority of eventers, dressage riders, working eq, combined driving and heaven knows how many other disciplines somehow manage to figure it out without thinking it’s particularly special or unique. Oh sure, there are always a few that just cannot get their act together, but I’ve seen those types in a full training program as well. But the vast majority manage to get their horses and themselves to and through competition without being mostly a rider and financer of all the other parts of the system.
I’m not going to cry tears for the h/j program, it’s doing just fine and plenty of riders are super happy with the current state of affairs. I have no idea if it’s a case of fiddling while Rome burns or it’s going to go gangbusters for the foreseeable future, but I really feel for people who are trying to hang on to personally managing their horses in the current system.
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I think it’s ridiculous to think that adult ammies are incapable of taking care of their horses themselves at shows. While there are plenty of swanky full service barns where owners hand the reins over to a groom, trainer schools the horse all week until the ammy shows up for their class, there are plenty of ammies (and Jrs) who show with smaller barns who somehow manage to set up their tack and grooming stalls, school their own horses, muck stalls and feed horses, are each other’s grooms, some may even be able to braid (we had a couple of jr/young adults who’s show money was earned braiding for others). All that and pick up some good ribbons too. Go figure. To suggest the OP needs to forget the H/J world is well elitist. No wonder they’re confused and are full of self -doubt. there are plenty of ammies who can ride the pants off some “pros”.
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