No neither saddle fits. Remote fitting does work. I would look at a saddle with wool flocking and shoulder gussets. Black Country, Kent and Masters, Adam Ellis, Amerigo. My friend a horse like this, huge warm blood, who every thought needed a X wide but the ideal saddle for him was a Black Country Solare M/W with shoulder gussets. Very slight touch up on the reflock and whole new happy horse.
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I came to the same realization that no French saddle will likely work for this horse. I’ve been browsing other threads and it looks like the recommended brands are: County, BC, Albion, Frank Baines, Adam Ellis, Bliss of London, and potentially PJ, Amerigo, and Prestige. It doesn’t seem that many (any?) of these brands offer a true flat seat + narrow twist + straight flap (some also seem narrow in the gullet which won’t work either) which are my must haves so I’m feeling frustrated. I found several used options from a few brands at MD Tack Exchange so was thinking about messaging them and seeing if they would compare my tracings to the saddles to help me get a better idea of which one to try next.
I was also recommended to look at Peter Horobin Saddlery and their StrideFree line. I saw one on HighLine (monoflap, wrong seat size but still) and thought the front looked like it would be a MUCH better fit with the cutback pommel and wide gullet. Impossible to find used but I may try the one from HighLine just to see.
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@kaya842 so I’m not super knowledgeable about saddle fitting, different brands, etc. BUT I do have a County Stabilizer that is pretty flat with straight flaps and a narrower twist. It’s not for sale, but there are a lot of used ones on the used County group on FB, very reasonably priced. Most are $2K or less. So if that’s the type of saddle you’re looking for, it may be worth looking into a Stabilizer.
Counties also tend to run wide, for example a medium tree in a County is wider than a standard medium across other brands.
I have no idea if the tree shape/panels/etc. would work for her, like I said I’m not super experienced with that kind of thing, but it’s a brand/model worth looking into.
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Maybe take a look at Stubben! I’m saddle shopping for my TB after he had kissing spines surgery earlier this year… I wanted to consider some of these brands but I think Stubben is going to be his best fit. Some of the others like County/Amerigo etc just have too narrow a headplate for his withers. The Amerigo saddles I’ve tried also have a more curvy tree than he needs. I’d like to put a Prestige and a Bliss of London on him to see what those are like.
I’ve been eyeing those Peter Horobin saddles at Highline, they won’t fit my horse but they are so beautiful!
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I can’t personally vouch for this saddle fitter, but if you search for her on COTH, you’ll find plenty of information.
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I am NOT a saddle fitter, but before you give up on French saddles, you might try a CWD SE01 which has a flatter tree. IMO, the “curvy-ness” of the tree is every bit as important as the width in front. And again, just IMHO, but people like a deeper seat than horses do in a lot of cases.
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The SE32 Mademoiselle is also really flat.
I’m no expert, but I ride at a CWD barn and need a new saddle, so I’ve been trying everyone else’s and consulting with the rep on what the codes mean.
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If you like a flat seat and a narrow twist consider a Tad Coffin. They aren’t for everyone and coming off an Antares took some getting used to but I love mine and so does my gelding with a flattish back and aversion to French “banana” trees.
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I can personally vouch for her. She’s fitted two of my horses including one full custom. I think we are on year three of the custom. I used Patty before she moved down south. Area 1 lost a very good fitter when she relocated but on the plus side she does offer remote consultations. I’ll be sending her a wither tracing and some photos this spring for my up and coming mare.
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You might be able to get new panels for that CWD if the fit is so good for you (as this one is not a standard configuration saddle for horse and is for a smaller rider size than you commonly find used). Not to mention new CWDs are way overpriced. This one has a lot of lift in the back (15mm) and a lot taken out in the front (10mm), plus the scapula relief. That’s a recipe for bridging and not giving you the support in the front. There is a RT+ fit for the scapula that might work on this horse once you fix the rest of the panel to suit. They’ve also got an “RG” code which may help at the base of the withers area where the horse is still wide. The tree angle does look pretty good.
The Meyer is probably worse in the rails and much curvier based on how those trees are shaped. It’s also not the same angle in the tree and will run narrower.
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I have been hesitant to send the CWD back (and the trial ends soon!) due to getting a pretty good deal on it through CWD as it had cantle damage, which they ended up fixing, and it is a less common seat size + flap combo (paid $3400 for it). The horse moves better in it than in all other saddles I’ve had on her, which makes me think she likes the flex tree. But getting the panels redone is no guarantee that it will fit with how inconsistent the results of that are.
I do want to try a County or other similar style as they look like they’d fit her better.
If you have anyone local that sells Erreplus saddles might be worth a shot as well, I had similar saddle fit problems with my gelding and finally found an Erreplus to fit. It took sone getting used to for me but now I love it.
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I get your hesitancy to try to customize that saddle. But one of my points was that perhaps you don’t actually need a K panel type fit if the horse is building muscle and these two saddles are extreme shoulder relief type fits. There could be a more normal panel that could work for this horse.
In my experience with County, their saddles won’t solve your base of the withers issue without creative flocking and adjustments to the panel (I had a horse who looked like this as a youngster and who was very sensitive there and in the shoulder, and this is what a master saddler said she’d have to do to a County which she still recommended for him due to tree angle, but I declined as it seemed too risky.).
I’ve found Equipes to be great for this issue but it is very hard to find them used especially in small sizes, in the US. At least they aren’t yet quite as speedy new as some of these others. I’ve made CWDs work but not with a panel like you have on this trial saddle. Maybe Black Country for a wool flocked option? Based on the withers clearance you have even with this very open CWD, Voltaire might work, and I think there is a larger used market for them.
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I did try a Voltaire Blue Wing (have to see if I have the photos of it on her somewhere) and remember the channel was much wider than anything else that has sat on her, and I think it gave her better clearance up top but the panel had too much fill lower down and was right there. Between the bottom of the panels being off and the seat being way too big for me (they run large? Or maybe that one was mis-stamped?) I returned it. But I’ve kept coming back to wanting to look at a Palm Beach.
I’ve been trying to get my hands on an Erreplus and an Equipe to try on her - great to here they have worked for similar shapes! They are definitely both harder to find used (in nearly any size) and don’t have as wide of a reach rep wise which has me making slow progress with those.
ETA Photos of the Blue Wing. It seems like it gave her a bit more clearance all around.
Have you tried a BC Solare? I have one I bought on a total whim and it seems like closer to the right shape.
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My trainer rides in an older Tad Coffin that has been changed over to wool flocking and fitted. You can also have any foam saddle changed over. If a saddle fits you and you love it, you can have the foam changed to wool and fitted for a about 1k if the tree size is right.
Try a Hastilow saddle. They’re lovely British made saddles but a bit more unusual in the US. There is a saddlery of theirs in PA. I have a big shouldered horse and tried tons and tons of things, but the Hastilow fits him beautifully. He’s also very short backed and the shape of the saddle, with professional adjusting as needed, has worked great.
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I’ve read repeatedly that one shouldn’t have a foam paneled saddle converted to wool as the results are usually not good due to the panel leather not being the same for foam which leads to the wool conversion not being able to get enough wool packed in or tension (or similar?). No personal experience but have read that enough times to scare me off trying that (what happens to the saddles it doesn’t work well on? Just $$$$ down the drain? Or?).
Not every foam saddle can be successfully converted to wool. I would check with a saddle fitter you trust before going that route.
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I converted an air panel saddle to wool for the same horse I mentioned above. Air panels sucked, as wool it was slightly better but it just didn’t really work. If you want wool, start with wool, which is what I did with my Hastilow and it’s a great saddle and easily adjusted.
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