Do Either of These Saddles Fit? Going Crazy Over Saddle Fit

[kaya842]

I’m on the hunt for a new saddle that better fits my newer mare as my CWD SE03 (that I have since sold) didn’t work for us as a pair (I had other issues with it as well). It was tight on her gigantic shoulders and through the back, and the panels were quite hard compared to all the others I have seen since I started looking (rep says it was probably a manufacturer defect but they couldn’t do anything about it).

I currently have a CWD Mademoiselle and Meyer Act 2 on trial but neither really seem to work and I can’t pin point why/ what needs to change (are they too wide, too narrow, wrong tree shape, etc). The Meyer seems to give her shoulders more room but seems right around her withers. The Madem is also tight around her withers and seems overly snug on shoulders (can fit my hand under the panel and slide down but get “caught” as it’s tighter there). I’ve ridden in both saddles once with no objections from the horse but haven’t been able to get back on because of the weather.

Anyone willing and able to toss some ideas or thoughts at me? Perhaps I’m overthinking it as she doesn’t look that complicated to fit. I am working on getting tracings too - I bought the blue flexible ruler thing but couldn’t get it to work as I would shape it to her back but it would pop back out distorting the shape so now I have pipe cleaners to try. Apologies for the photo dump!

[sheltona01]

No they do not. The panels are wrong. You can see how there is no support in the front of the saddle and I bet sitting way too heavy and tight at the base of the withers pinching.

[Bristol_Bay]

Can you post pictures of the codes on the flaps? Does the CWD have the flex tree where you can hold the saddle down on the pommel with one hand and lift the flaps off the shoulders with the other?

[Renn_aissance]

No.

Sheltona is an actual expert and I am not, but I’m a decent amateur. If those wither hollows are conformational and not muscle atrophy, you want the panel to have some fill there and lift the saddle clear of her wither and spine while staying out of the way of her shoulder. Look up trapezius panel or K-panel for imagery of what this can look like. However, if they are muscle atrophy I would rather accomplish that with a shim so you don’t have to replace the panels in 6 months. And I’m suspicious that they’ll fill in some with a well fitting saddle and 6 months of good flatwork based on the look of her topline. Do you have an area fitter- NOT brand rep- who can help you?

[kaya842]

@sheltona01 I think I see what you mean but am really having trouble pinpointing it. I was certain they didn’t fit, specifically at the front but can’t put it into words/ seem to understand what specifically makes them not fit. It seems like I need a different panel, one with more support (fill?) at the front but that seems counterintuitive with them being tight in the front (albeit lower down in the shoulder).

@Bristol_Bay Let me grab a pic of the code in a bit!

@Renn_aissance I appreciate the assistance! I was thinking of a trapezius panel but I believe, as you do, that those wither hollows will fill in (they already have to some degree since I bought her in August). She isn’t in heavy work currently due to not wanting to work her in something that doesn’t fit. I’m a-okay with shimming as I think she will change shape a bit (not in the same way a young horse would, just gaining and losing topline muscle) but didn’t think these were a good enough fit to begin with. I feel like I’m currently spinning my wheels not sure what exactly I need. I don’t have a independent rep nearby. I’ve reached out to two online but not sure if either qualifies as truly independent as they both sell a few specific brands. Is there anyone you could recommend?

[sheltona01]

It probably just doesn’t fit overall. I only mentioned the panels because it is something you can see, but it is mostly the tree shape too. Your horse appears to have a wide spinal column and needs more topline development. I have marked up the pictures. The ones with the saddles, the blue is the area where it is sitting too heavy/pinching on your horse. The topline phone shows how wide your horse’s spine is and where I would like to see more topline to support a saddle. You can see in the pictures where the saddle is being squeezed up on the horse’s spine and not sitting down and around it as it should.

[Jealoushe]

Looks too narrow also? Agree they don’t fit.

[sheltona01]

Not necessary too narrow as in tree size. However probably too narrow in the rails. Honestly the tree point angles is one of the things I like about the fit. I just behind it you can see how the rails come in towards the spine looking down inside the channel.

[kaya842]

Agree 100% with the topline bit. Would you suggest fitting a bit “looser” and pad now while she develops those muscles?

[sheltona01]

Honestly the best thing would be take a month off of riding and doing a lot of ground work. I don’t mean lunging in circles but long lining and such. However that is a tough sell to my clients. Otherwise, you have to sort of use a magic crystal ball to try to fit where the horse should be to allow the development and shim. In cases like this, if the owner is willing, I do temporary saddles. I rent saddles out for a few months then see where the horse’s topline goes then fit it for a sale.

[kaya842]

She has been doing a lot of ground work (more than riding) for several months BUT the focus has been on mental work vs physical work as she had a bit of anxiety to work through.

A rental is a very intriguing idea! Can I PM you to see about a remote fitting (if you offer them of course)?

[sheltona01]

Oh that is tough! The anxiety probably means she is carrying tension which doesn’t allow her to really carry herself well to develop the topline. This is one of the reason why saddle fitting is always a moving target.

[kaya842]

Yes! She would brace with her under neck muscles and curl instead of lifting through her back. She still does sometimes but has improved a ton.

[StormyDay]

Between the two of them, IMHO, saddle number 1 appears to fit better and I would assume would be the one that would fit best after she gains more top line.
If they are used, it may be worth buying the ‘best fit’ now and selling it down the line when she builds top line. I have a feeling she’s going to bulk up that shoulder and you may see her go up a tree size.

[Bogie]

Temporary saddles is a great plan. I’ve done that by buying used saddles that I know the horse will outgrow, and then selling them on but it would be so much easier not to go through the buying and selling process

[kaya842]

Yeah I don’t love having to sell them as I often (always?) take a loss. Both of these are used and on trial. The Meyer (first saddle) doesn’t fit me at all but Mademoiselle is near perfect for me (very sad it doesn’t fit pony but that is saddle shopping). I have yet to see anything that looks like it would work with her big shoulder + wither hollows of now situation. I can’t afford to buy something fully custom to her but think I have a healthy budget for a used saddle, just need a little more direction so I’m not taking a stab in the dark with each trial.

[Bogie]

When my mare gets out of shape, I use a treeless saddle (well, technically a soft tree). I do not jump her in it, but it’s been very helpful to have something that doesn’t look like a party hat on her back. Now, the better brand treeless saddles are not cheap, but I love my Heather Moffett Vogue dressage saddle for hacking so it’s been a good solution for us.

[Bristol_Bay]

The reason I ask about the CWD panels is that they do scoop out foam in the shoulder area in some configurations so I’m wondering if this saddle has that and if not, maybe you could find one to try.

[kaya842]

@Bristol_Bay Here is a photo of the code. It’s hard to read but it is PA 315 RT 710 which the rep says means 15mm is add to the back and 710 is decreasing the front by 10mm and the RT is the shoulder relief.

Does any know if a trapezius panel could be added to an existing (wool not foam) saddle or if it could be removed later? I don’t see why not (not saying it would be cheap FWIW) but I’m not a saddle maker/ fitter.

[Bristol_Bay]

Well, that’s a lot of shoulder relief so that answers my question.

I don’t think a French saddle would work for you. They just stick different panels on the same tree.