This!
[QUOTE=Equibrit;7273121]
I don’t think it improves the value of a property, but it makes the property more attractive to a horse person.[/QUOTE]
DH and I plan a move a bit west of where we currently live so we can have a small horse property. Ideally, we’ll look for something that already has a barn because we’ll be able to buy for less than the cost of building. So, while I’ll look for a horse property, I won’t expect to pay more than a comparable property without the barn/fencing.
[QUOTE=Mukluk;7272618]
I suppose it depends if the buyer is a horse person?[/QUOTE]
Bingo. The Correct Answer.
G.
You also have to add back what you are saving by having the stalls and not boarding out.
[QUOTE=quarterhorse4me;7273920]
Some of it depends on whether you are in a equestrian area. [/QUOTE]
Even in a horsey area, my experience is no.
I have sold two properties with stalls, one in the Town of Bedford, NY (VERY horsey) and one in Northern VA.
The stalls were of no value to either buyer. One converted the barn to house his old cars. The other is using the stalls for storage, and will eventually build a pool, and convert the stalls to the pool house.
I think the answer is “Well maybe” One house in our neighborhood sold in a matter of days for the asking price. The buyers were looking for horse property. Others have been on the market for months but the one way overpriced non horse property has also been on the market for about 2 years (That seller is delusional)
We have put a lot of money into the 2 barns, fencing and arena. No, we won’t get our money back but I enjoy using them.
Our last real vacation was in 2003. They’re not good investments either
Perhaps the best solution is to put in stalls you like and can afford but make them so they can be removed and either take them with you or sell them should you decide to sell your property in the future.
That’s funny. If I was looking at two properties that were essentially comparable but one had a barn & fencing and the other did not I certainly would expect to pay more for that property.
Having said that it does not increase the value to exactly what it costs to have built (for the most part). Over the years I have built a 6 stall barn, four large run in sheds, small covered arena, fencing, etc. Probably has cost me over $175K over the years. Just recently had my place appraised for a refi and it only increased my property value about $125K. Now part of that is due to them being unable to find comps to make an exact comparison. If I was listing my property for sale I certainly would include the infrastructure in the listing price.
[QUOTE=Bogie;7273940]
This!
DH and I plan a move a bit west of where we currently live so we can have a small horse property. Ideally, we’ll look for something that already has a barn because we’ll be able to buy for less than the cost of building. So, while I’ll look for a horse property, I won’t expect to pay more than a comparable property without the barn/fencing.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Blume Farm;7274052]
That’s funny. If I was looking at two properties that were essentially comparable but one had a barn & fencing and the other did not I certainly would expect to pay more for that property.
Having said that it does not increase the value to exactly what it costs to have built (for the most part). Over the years I have built a 6 stall barn, four large run in sheds, small covered arena, fencing, etc. Probably has cost me over $175K over the years. Just recently had my place appraised for a refi and it only increased my property value about $125K. Now part of that is due to them being unable to find comps to make an exact comparison. If I was listing my property for sale I certainly would include the infrastructure in the listing price.[/QUOTE]
You are also talking about much more of a professional equestrian facility than a home where you can keep your horses on the property. Most of the places we’ve seen here (just browsing ads), the barn/fencing is like having a pool. Some people think it’s great; most people fill it in.
I know several horse properties with cute barns, nice fencing that were sold to non-horse owners and have been horse free for many years now. it always kills me to see those empty pastures!
We are in one of the highest horse populations in the country. According to the idiot Wells Fargo appraisers, our $400,000+ barn is worth about nothing. They also told us our land was worth $3,000 per acre. Funny, the lots across the street are selling for over $100,000 per acre.
I have been farmette shopping for a little under a year. I can tell you that comparable properties with a barn/fencing/stalls and without are NOT selling for any more than their comparators without a barn/fencing/stalls in this area (South Jersey) but the equine-equipped properties with NICE barn/fencing/stalls are selling much more rapidly than their counterparts. Sadly, I don’t think you recoup the investment you make in that type of improvement but you do attract a larger pool of buyers include those that are more ready to pull the trigger.
Good feedback. Like I said we’re not selling in the near future, or doing this barn as an investment - it’s just to improve the barn’s usefulness to me.
I guess I’m surprised, though, how little impact you guys are saying it would have when marketing a property. (Which is what I meant by value–I never expected the county or bank to appraise it higher.) I know I totally would give preference to a horse-ready property vs. one with no improvements. But, yeah, I guess I haven’t really thought about non-horse people buying it. (Whaaaa? There are people who don’t have horses!!! :lol: ) This is our first house so we’ve never sold one–my naivete is showing through.
We have the same problem as someone else here mentioned about a lack of comps. They had to go really far away from town (which translated to lower value) to find 3 or 4 similar properties when we re-financed. And a 35-ac chunk of land is a bigger property than many homeowner mortgage banks feel comfortable with. So it does complicate loans.
[QUOTE=Equibrit;7273121]
I don’t think it improves the value of a property, but it makes the property more attractive to a horse person.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
As a retired banker, I can tell you a small improvement like that to an appurtenant structure does not increase the value of the property. It does make it more marketable though, and expands the universe of your potential market…
I should think it is a bit like “curb appeal.” Makes me more likely to take a look, but I don’t necessarily think $100 extra per tree…
Stalls in the barn definitely enticed me to buy my farm. As did perimeter fencing, a frost free hydrant in the barn, a run in shed, and a stocked fishing lake. Cannot even imagine what it would have cost me to add those!
Ex RE broker here. Agree it won’t add much value. On the other hand, if you were in a horse centric area, and your barn DIDN’T have stalls, that might drop the value a smidgen. If you were around Lexington KY, or Northern VA, would think the improvement would add some small value vs. the average USA farm community.
I live in a rural area, with a nice little resort town nearby. Townspeople have been modifying properties over the years to add a room here or there for either summer guests, or rentals to tourists. This lovely little TB breeding farm sold here a few years back. You know, the perfect place with a mud room in the house with benches built around the corners for removing riding boots, views from the kitchen window to the pastures, etc. A gal with $$ from south of the border decided to invest in our area, bought several properties including this one, and the day after closing poured a cement floor in the barn and stuck a furnace in one of the stalls. She was turning that lovely barn into rooms for her visitors. In one of the village mansions she bought, she put in vinyl replacement windows. :rolleyes: She moved out after a few years. LOL
Frankly, she wouldn’t have realized the money she put into changing that barn into housing either. It is rare that you realize the same amount of money you put into an improvement, in an increase in value. The best way to do it, is to improve a property that is the “worst on the block” so that your improvements bring the property up to its neighboring properties.
You may not get back your return dollar for dollar, but if your barn was meant to house animals, is typical for its use in the area, it was a good idea. AND, as so many have mentioned, it will appeal to others needing stalls for animals, should you decide to sell down the road - which may mean a quicker sale - would more easily convince them this is the place, and they don’t have to put them in! 
And finally, you’re living there! So you should do to your property, within reason, things that will add to your enjoyment! Sounds to me like you’ve got it figured out.
[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;7272521]
I have no doubt in my mind that the barn reno we’re doing does increase property value. But having sold a grand total of zero homes, does anyone know if this is true? We’re not selling, so this is largely an academic question.
Well, ok, it’s actually a response to this conversation today with hubby while building stalls:
DH: So, how much did these stall kits cost?
me: Oh, about $2000 by the time we got all the lumber. But trust me, a barn with 4 horse stalls totally adds to property value. (I don’t know that this is actually true, BTW)
DH: <quiet for a moment> Hmm, maybe. Well, I guess it’s better than if you had spent the money on drugs."
Why yes, dear, at least there’s that. Had I known his bar was set so low (for evaluating the merits of a given expense) I would have done this YEARS ago. :lol:
Between the structural work, painting, and stalls, I’d say we’ve got about $13k in this thing. If you haven’t seen my 21,565 other posts on this, it’s a 110yr old wood barn, about 25x60’ now with four horse stalls). So you’d never be able to build something like that for less than what we’ve spent. That’s kinda been my equation to decide whether we should do it or not.
Is that the way a buyer will think, though? Or do they see horse property and just consider 4 stalls as a given, like you’d assume the house has a kitchen.[/QUOTE]
There is value to a buyer and seller (the market), and there is value to a bank/appraiser. Unfortunately, the latter group often doesn’t care about the reality of the former and will do everything they can to average down the value of your property, including undervalue attached buildings. (I don’t think they’re out there trying to screw everyone, but clearly for business they want to have the least amount loaned for the most amount of property value. And that can leave buyers and sellers struggling) For example, you might have a 60x120 indoor with fabulous footing, lighting, and a brand new roof but an 60x150 with stonedust, a few lights, and 20year-old shingled roof will probably get a better value from the appraiser. (This is one reason why mini-mc-mansions are popular for new home construction - they may not be built well or nicely but they appraise well)
I think you’re wise to be looking into this. Keep in mind there are some renovations that return resale value almost dollar-for-dollar on investment, but most don’t.
These days people aren’t buying on straight cash and don’t have as much equity to parlay into their purchase. So financing amounts are high and even if the buyer brings plenty of cash to keep financed amounts well below appraised value, the whole loan is often contingent on sale price >= appraised price. So I would resist doing that at all costs.
David
When my husband and I were looking for a horse property, we found nothing in our price range that was suitable. And we looked hard. It was hard to find a property in a suitable location with land and, a barn. We looked at lots of places that we could barely afford without a barn and fencing. We then would not have had the money to build the barn or fence the property with decent fencing. We ended up with a property with an old barn and gutted it building stalls ourselves. The arena we put in perhaps overimproved the property, but it is a horseperson’s dream. IMHO, if you put in stalls and fencing, etc. but don’t go over the top you will get your money back. Many people have asked me to let them know if we ever decide to sell, so in our case I think we did enough but not too much.
[QUOTE=HungarianHippo;7274456]
I guess I’m surprised, though, how little impact you guys are saying it would have when marketing a property. (Which is what I meant by value–I never expected the county or bank to appraise it higher.) [/QUOTE]
But the appraisal value is a huge consideration, and IMO is one of the biggest. A buyer can’t get a mortgage for anything more than the home is appraised for. The home I purchased appraised for $60k under what everyone (including me, my realtor, and mortgage officer) thought it was worth due to a complete lack of comps in the rural area, so I had to come up with the extra cash. So unless you have a buyer who is a horse person that will put down cash, any additions to the horsey side are “worthless” in terms of resale.
[QUOTE=morganpony86;7275233]
due to a complete lack of comps in the rural area, so I had to come up with the extra cash. So unless you have a buyer who is a horse person that will put down cash, any additions to the horsey side are “worthless” in terms of resale.[/QUOTE]
When the only comp is a 1,500 square foot barn, with stalls I would not put any living animal in. Compared to our 20,000 square foot facility with an indoor arena, and they say they are of equal value.
Your DH is right
It’s better than spending the money on drugs.
They don’t add value. They only add the “hey, we don’t have to spend $$$ on stalls” if it’s a horse person. Won’t make it appraise a dime higher.
I dunno, drugs are starting to look like the better choice.
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