No Voltaire was Hannoverian. And yes they wouldn’t license him. But they sure like his sons and grandsons.
I have two warmblood mares. One is by a Hannoverian ( both licensed and registered) sire, Oldenburg damsire and TB grandam sire. She is registered and branded RPSI. The second mare is by a Dutch sire, Holsteiner damsire, and Oldenburg grandam sire. She is registered and branded Hannoverian.
So look at the horse first, at the bloodlines second and the brand third.
I’m personally a fan of the Selle Francais. They tend to carry a bit more TB blood than a lot of the German breeds. They’re built a bit lighter and are a little hotter/more sensitive while still having a sensible mind. Several of the ones I’ve worked with have a TB work ethic with an incredible amount of athleticism. Obviously this isn’t an accurate representation of all of them and is JMHO 
My favorite story is that of Lauries Crusader, who was a money winning TBS racehorse in England that the Hanoverian people pulled off the track and stood at Celle. He became one of the leading dress game sires.
If the horse is the right type, it is the right type. What we call it in our books makes no difference to the horse, but a lot of people would suddenly feel cheated if they realized their pure bred Hanoverian offspring was actually half ottb.
I had an Oldenburg who was half ottb, 1/4 westphalian, and 1/4 Shagyas arab. Lovely horse. I called him an Oldenburg, because he was.
[QUOTE=Halfhalting;8525268]
I am curios from a breeder perspective if hunter riders and buyers would rather have one breed or registration over another? Often these warmblood have multiple registry options: Hanoverian, BWP, RPSI, etc… Some registries give scores as foals and others don’t. Do buyers care or are the majority of hunter buyers still more passive about that detail?[/QUOTE]
Most hunter buyers (myself included) are pretty clueless when it comes to warmblood registries. So go with something that will sound familiar to a buyer.
If you have a choice, I’d go with Hannoverian, KWPN, Holsteiner, Westphalian, or Oldenburg. Those seem to be the most common in hunterland.
But Holsteiner is just a piece of paper, too. That’s the thing with the WB registries. The horse is what the paper says…despite what the dam and sire were registered. There is no “100% Holsteiner” Because a registry is not blood based, but inspection based, a horse is what the papers say.
If a horse has not been presented to a registry for inspection, it is not that registry.
But this is a good point for the OP: Holsteiner is going to have more cache then RPSI. There are some registries that seem to be catch-alls and are less desirable. It’s why I always told people my horse was registered Oldenburg NA with Hanoverian/Holsteiner lines…and why I tell people my mare is Dutch and leave it at that (She’s actually 1/2 TB and Dutch with Hanoverian/Holsteiner lines. She’s by Consul). Dutch = good, Oldenburg NA = kind of a catch-all.
[QUOTE=RugBug;8532152]
But Holsteiner is just a piece of paper, too. That’s the thing with the WB registries. The horse is what the paper says…despite what the dam and sire were registered. There is no “100% Holsteiner” Because a registry is not blood based, but inspection based, a horse is what the papers say. [/QUOTE]
I call this horse 100% Holsteiner which is why I say he is Holsteiner, when asked. If not that, then what? (He certainly is not an “RPSI”)
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8532355]
I call this horse 100% Holsteiner which is why I say he is Holsteiner, when asked. If not that, then what? (He certainly is not an “RPSI”)
http://www.horsetelex.com//horses/pedigree/1721284[/QUOTE]
A horse is only a Holstseiner if the registry says he is a Holsteiner, otherwise, sorry but not a Holsteiner. I suppose you could say he was bred from Holsteiner lines.
I describe Star as TB-Hanoverian cross with RPSI papers if someone asks about his breeding.
If asked specifically how’s he’s registered I say RPSI and sometimes add the other information.
Then someone inevitably asks what does RPSI stand for and then how do you spell it. So sometimes I replace RPSI with Zweibrucker (sp? can’t spell that either, but I don’t usually get asked to spell that) just to keep things lively and because it matches the brand.
“Rox Dene was Dutch…”
She was registered Dutch, yet the pedigree shows she was out of a TB mare and that her Dutch sire was by a Selle Francais out of a ½ TB ½ dutch mare.
of 8 great grand sires and dams, 1 is Dutch, 2 are Selle Francais, 5 are Thoroughbred.
This is the meaning of registry vs. breed.
There are no Europeans that register their (Sport) horses with any US or North American named registry subsidiary. How many ‘offshoots’ of European registries are there in North America? I’ve stopped counting.
US people believe a registry name means something regarding the horse’s bloodlines. Most European registries are performance and inspection based, combined with a geographic regional registry that often began with an indigenous mare base.
Horses born in YY are registered on some level with YY. Or if they are not good enough for the top books, are presented to other registries and may be approved there (see Voltaire).
This is not the case with Trakhener and at least until recently with Holsteiner and to some extent Selle Francais.
Europe seems to give far more weight to performance credentials than the North Americans as far as valuing horses.
Rox Dene’s sire was KWPN-NA, as was Rox Dene. -NA is the stateside version of ‘Dutch Warmblood’
So you might say North American breeders do rather well producing Hunters; whatever registry name they go by.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8532355]
I call this horse 100% Holsteiner which is why I say he is Holsteiner, when asked. If not that, then what? (He certainly is not an “RPSI”)
http://www.horsetelex.com//horses/pedigree/1721284[/QUOTE]
RPSI is just an American registry. Doesn’t de-value the horse AS A HORSE.
Probably knocks some $$ off the price of people with ‘breed prejudice’ of course; and if a mare, she couldn’t ‘become’ a Holst. and have her foals registered there without some sort of special dispensation from the registry in Germany.
What’s in a name?
In germany Holstein, Hannover, Westfalen and Oldenburg are the big and wanted breeds. They are the ones that faught for keeping the branding. The rest is not as fancy. By now it is more Marketing. Like these are Mercedes, BMW and Audi the rest is still good just not as vauled
[QUOTE=D_BaldStockings;8533414]
RPSI is just an American registry. Doesn’t de-value the horse AS A HORSE.
Probably knocks some $$ off the price of people with ‘breed prejudice’ of course; and if a mare, she couldn’t ‘become’ a Holst. and have her foals registered there without some sort of special dispensation from the registry in Germany.
What’s in a name?[/QUOTE]
I think that RPSI is on both sides of the ocean. Star’s papers look like the typical German passport thing and he was born and inspected in the US. Things may have changed as he’s a 1999 model.
FWIW, my Zweibrucker was bred and foaled in Canada. He had Hannoverian lines, but was not registered as such.
Personally, I am partial to Holsteiners, but I’ve also had fabulous Mecklenburg, Hanoverian, and Dutch horses (and of course TBs). At the end of the day, a nice horse is a nice horse. If it suits the job and the rider, it doesn’t matter to me what the papers say (if there are any).
