I am curios from a breeder perspective if hunter riders and buyers would rather have one breed or registration over another? Often these warmblood have multiple registry options: Hanoverian, BWP, RPSI, etc… Some registries give scores as foals and others don’t. Do buyers care or are the majority of hunter buyers still more passive about that detail?
All about the canter and the jump. The rest doesn’t matter without those. Certain physical types are known to produce the right canter and jump and occur more in some lines then other but they can be found in many stud books/registries or crossbreds. There really isn’t alot of hard data about Hunter breeding anyway since its US centered and unregulated elsewhere. Even in the US not every nice Hunter shows USEF rated.
The subjective factor in the Hunters makes it more complicated then breeding or selecting Jumper prospects.
Warmbloods are a mixture of TB, Arabian, etc. Warmbloods are registries not breeds. Although the trakehners are pretty close to being a breed.
Buy some books on warmbloods and learn which registry concentrates on jumping mainly; which registry is not favored because it has so much of one breed’s blood; and which registries breed horses to both jump and do dressage. I prefer registries where the horses are bred for multi-disciplines. And ones where both the sire and dam have a proven record in their disciplines.
These are not my views… just observation. Yes, there is a bias for certain breeds. However, if the horse is nice enough, it isn’t an issue. The classic… Trakhners rumored to be spooky/difficult but great movers, RPSI maybe easier to get approved. Holsteiner, Hanoverian, Belgian are generally seen the most so are well liked. Most educated buyers will either be looking for a particular line or will know a good horse when they see one. Again, not my opinion just what may be out there!
I don’t know that there is a Warmblood preference among hunters. I personally like Dutch Warmbloods. They have strict requirements for breeding and this has led to more long term sound horses. They are also easy to handle, train, and I have found they are very amateur friendly. An example of a Dutch WB that was well known is: Rox Dene.
My mare is by the stallion, Ustinov. She is very intelligent, straightforward, easy, not mare-ish, sweet, and has a pet type personality.
I also agree that the bloodlines are not as sought after in Hunterland as they may be in Jumper land. As long as the horse fits the Hunter Type, that’s what people want. I do find that certain trainers or riders deinitely have prefrences though and will look at certain ones over others, but it’s purely opinion.
I personally am a bit biased in certain ways- I think Dutch horses are pretty solid all around. I am not a fan of any of the RSPI I have ridden (they all seem to take a bit more convincing of everything in life), and I feel like Oldenburgs are beautiful, light and very typey, but have a streak of pony/chicken in them (also really puffy manes and tails) lol 
These are totally biased based off my own experiences though so I’m sure someone could tell you the exact opposite about each one of the ones I listed above.
Hunters are sooooo subjective, you really have to look for type, not as much breed. At least in terms of warmbloods
Thank you for your comments. I am well versed in what makes a nice hunter, and I am personally a bloodline snob for my personal horses (and always love to know bloodlines of good horses), but the question is really the preference of others so I like your perspectives. In other words, will it impact the sale"ability" if a foal or young horse just under saddle is approved BWP instead of Hanoverian? There is not a big breed initiative in the hunters (not including the welsh and Virginia bred ponies!), but I still wondered if there was a bias or perceived “better”.
Personally, I love the thought of adding Holsteiner to traditional WB mares but then there are so many WB breed options to register the offspring with!
I am more of a “if the horse can do it” type but there are certain registries that give me a more positive reaction than others.
For instance,
Hanoverian and Dutch: sensible and amateur-friendly
Holsteiner: jump (but they must prove they can and have the right type of jump).
Oldenburg: more mutt like to me and you can only rely on individual evaluation, not bloodline
RPSI: seems like even more of a catch-all that oldenburg
Zangershiede: jump and perhaps soundness
Trakehner: flighty and not the best form over fences.
I don’t have enough experience the others to really have any broader assumptions.
[QUOTE=WildandWickedWarmbloods;8525382]
Warmbloods are a mixture of TB, Arabian, etc. Warmbloods are registries not breeds. Although the trakehners are pretty close to being a breed.
Buy some books on warmbloods and learn which registry concentrates on jumping mainly; which registry is not favored because it has so much of one breed’s blood; and which registries breed horses to both jump and do dressage. I prefer registries where the horses are bred for multi-disciplines. And ones where both the sire and dam have a proven record in their disciplines.[/QUOTE]
I feel really dumb asking this question but I must. I have a Holsteiner so what breed is he if warmbloods are not breeds? I am really clueless about bloodlines etc.
I would say hunter people buy warmbloods but choose more in degree of ability and type.
Since often some dressage horses end up as hunters it is not only down on jumper bloodlines.
I would learn the bloodlines that made sucessful hunters. As far as I know from the hannoverian stud book there are some good results with offspring of Escudo and Rotspon. Holsteiners normaly have tons of scope but not always the prefered jump over the lower Hunter fences. Oldenburg has quiet as few sucessful hunters. It comes a bit down to the sellers in europe and where they are located.
This would be easier to learn if people would correctly register their horses.
Amen to that! ^. I wish everybody would track bloodlines in the USEF database. I’m torn between which direction to register an upcoming foal. Quality is quality, but I thought more folks would have a preferred registry. Sounds like it still doesn’t really matter for hunters as long as it’s registered and inspected somewhere. Thanks!
[QUOTE=Hiddenspot;8528371]
I feel really dumb asking this question but I must. I have a Holsteiner so what breed is he if warmbloods are not breeds? I am really clueless about bloodlines etc.[/QUOTE]
A breed is bloodline based and has a closed book meaning horses without the proper parentage/bloodlines cannot be registered into that book. Thoroughbreds are a breed. You can’t register a tab that has an quarter horse parent. Any horse with the correct and provable parentage can be registered a TB regardless of quality or type.
Warmbloods are registeries because the inclusion in the book is based on the horse’s ability to meet a certain type desired by the specific registry as well as having provable bloodlines. (A grade horse is not going to be registerable)That is why there are inspections to determine if the horse meets the standards and to what degree. Within the registries, there are levels, ( books). And the closer the horse is to the standard the higher the level of the book. If you here “main mare book” or some such, the horse is very close to the standard.
Trakehners would be considered a breed because they only allow trakehner parentage…with some allowed Arabian blood. Quarter horses are considered a breed, but do allow for a lot of TB blood, so much so that a horse can be 7/8 TB and still be called a QH. My Oldenburg, on the other hand, had TB, Hanoverian and holsteiner blood in him.
People who breed prefer the studbooks they like to use. I think there may be a slight preference for the bigger studbooks that people would have heard of (Dutch, Hano, Swedish, etc.) and less for the smaller ones that people are less familiar with (Mecklenburg, Brandenburger, etc.) And some people don’t like traks that much (a reputation for not having as good form over fences). Aside from that, I think people are unlikely to prefer, say, an Oldenburg over a Hanoverian or vice versa if it’s a gelding and just for riding, no breeding.
Thank you Rugbug! I love learning something new.
For Germany you can think like this
Holstein: scopey jumpers
Hannover: pretty jumpers and some dressage horses with jump, the studbook made more money with dressage horses for many years, so they lost their jumpers a bit
Oldenburg: can Do both
Oldenburg international/ OS: jumping horses
Westfalen: dressage and jumpers, heavy use of Cornet so some jumpers can a be a bit strong
Mecklenburg: more jumpers, many success with levisto, the breeds use holstein als well, Pumped up Kicks is one
Deutsches sportpferd: well since they can use nearly every approved stallion, could be anything
Trakehner: have not had many jumpers over the years, very dressage orientated some eventers.
It really comes down to the blood used. In many Association you can use so many stallions from other stud books it is hillarious.
Surprised only one mention of Westphalian, and that they were more jumper-based, at that. I personally have not encountered a westphalian horse or line I dislike. Maybe it is because I am biased, but I always spot W brands in the big hunter rings and when I comment on it, owners/riders always remark on how the horse has the best brain! They really do, though I have seen the “strong” side mentioned above, still have the best minds IMO.
Perhaps cross-post to the sport horse breeding forum, and see what they can add?
[QUOTE=wronglead;8530991]
Surprised only one mention of Westphalian, and that they were more jumper-based, at that. I personally have not encountered a westphalian horse or line I dislike. Maybe it is because I am biased, but I always spot W brands in the big hunter rings and when I comment on it, owners/riders always remark on how the horse has the best brain! They really do, though I have seen the “strong” side mentioned above, still have the best minds IMO.[/QUOTE]
I have ridden only two. Both were lovely horses in all respects.
My jumper is 100% Holsteiner but was presented to RPSI as a weanling because that was the only inspection in Oklahoma.
I have been told that I am supposed to say that he is RPSI, but with Holsteiner breeding.
I say phooey to this. If a horse is 100% Holsteiner, then he is a Holsteiner and the RPSI is nothing more than a piece of paper.
This is why it gets so confusing. The registries often have nothing to do with the breeding. Voltaire was an Oldenburg, through and through. But the Oldenburg people would not license him because he was too small. So his owners took him to Holland and had him inspected there, where he was approved. Which is why people think that Voltaire is a Dutch horse, when he isn’t.
The registration often has 0 to do with the bloodlines; never assume a horse has XXX blood just because he is in that registry.
This is another reason why hunter people do not look at a registry when deciding on a horse.
[QUOTE=Lord Helpus;8531730]
My jumper is 100% Holsteiner but was presented to RPSI as a weanling because that was the only inspection in Oklahoma.
I have been told that I am supposed to say that he is RPSI, but with Holsteiner breeding.
I say phooey to this. If a horse is 100% Holsteiner, then he is a Holsteiner and the RPSI is nothing more than a piece of paper.
This is why it gets so confusing. The registries often have nothing to do with the breeding. Voltaire was an Oldenburg, through and through. But the Oldenburg people would not license him because he was too small. So his owners took him to Holland and had him inspected there, where he was approved. Which is why people think that Voltaire is a Dutch horse, when he isn’t.
The registration often has 0 to do with the bloodlines; never assume a horse has XXX blood just because he is in that registry.
This is another reason why hunter people do not look at a registry when deciding on a horse.[/QUOTE]
This is so true. My hunter’s daddy was a holsteiner, mom was an Oldenburg. He was registered as an Oldenburg so that’s what I usually tell people. My jumper who I sometimes enter into Hunter derbies is 3/4 holsteiner and 1/4 tb is only registered as a Canadian sporthorse, but I usually say he’s a holsteiner.
Both horses are scopey, with good brains and snappy front ends so I guess I’ll give a thumbs up to the holsteiners.
