Do people really hunt in the old style hunt caps?

[Whistler]

I’m venturing over from my regular hunter jumper forum to ask a question since I’ve never been on a hunt before - though I’ve been wanting to for years…

So, in my bored internet wanderings I came across this article (and it’s a terrible gossip site, I know) about a very sad accident in the UK where the female hunt master came off at a fence and died of brain injuries. In the pictures she’s shown wearing one of those older hunt caps without a harness.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3305748/Female-master-hunt-dies-falling-going-fence.html

It doesn’t say anything about a helmet but I can only imagine those types of hunt caps would just go flying off before one even hit the ground. Are these type of caps standard attire in hunt land?

[FitToBeTied]

They are not standard anymore and most hunts require an approved helmet. However, the hunts will give a pass to older members or staff. It’s really stupid on both the part of the rider and the hunt. When I was on a hunt board I pointed out how and accident with an unapproved could have serious liability issues for us. I lost out because the older board members were still wearing the old card board caps.

[Bogie]

Yes, I’ve seen them in the hunt field. Although much less frequently than even a few years ago.

[enjoytheride]

Yes, I have seen them in the states as well.

[Foxtrot_s]

When questioned about his old style no-chinstrap helmet, our old Master said it would stay on because it was custom made!

[Debbie]

I think it’s becoming less common, but yes some still do.

[tangledweb]

Not “standard”, but not uncommon in the field and pretty common on staff.

Some people genuinely believe that a custom made Patey provides significant protection. Others just believe that having ridden for 50 years without dying their odds per ride are low.

[Equibrit]

There are traditional models that conform to modern standard.

.http://www.charlesowen.com/gb/products/rider+2000

http://www.charlesowen.com/gb/products/h2000

There is still no modern hemet that protects the base of the skull, as this style does.

[beaujolais]

“There is still no modern hemet that protects the base of the skull, as this style does.”

Confused - as which style does?

[BAC]

[QUOTE=sonomacounty;8390288]
“There is still no modern hemet that protects the base of the skull, as this style does.”

Confused - as which style does?[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure either but the old hunt caps did seem to cover more of the back of the head, then what current helmets do. I took any number of falls wearing the old style hunt cap and it frequently stayed on my head, although certainly not always. I think that is why some feel very safe in their custom Pateys.

[beaujolais]

Thanks, BAC. But if covered in a near useless material . . .

I hear the Tiperraries are good for back off the head coverage. I think lots of the eventers use them and, well, they should know . . .

http://www.doversaddlery.com/tipperary-sportage-8500-riding-helmet/p/X1-36064/?eid=X18A00U1000&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=CSE&utm_campaign=MerchantAdv&zmam=1460880&zmas=1&zmac=114&zmap=0036064472991X1-36064&mkwid=sd2KONIoa&crid=75877034407&mp_kw=&mp_mt=&pdv=c&gclid=CPWCnvPP-8gCFcEXHwodZNAA8w

[BAC]

Sonomacounty it wasn’t a useless material, it was a hard shell covered with velvet or velveteen. It was the best they had in those days, but of course not nearly as good as today’s materials.

[ISR]

At our opening day yesterday I noticed someone swap our their top hat for an unapproved hunt cap just before we moved off. It did make me chuckle to think that one would offer more protection than the other.

Our hunt has no official policy on the subject. Presumably if you are an adult you are capable of making your own safety decisions. That includes making decissions on what horse you hunt, which field you ride in, and which safety products you choose to use.

[IdlewildEquestrian]

Around here, No, no one would hunt in an outdated hunt cap. A black velvet helmet is much more suitable and safe.

[Equibrit]

Somebody needs to define an old style hunt cap, a modern hunt cap that conforms to safety standards and a “helmet”. They seem to mean different things to different people.

[BAC]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8395065]
Somebody needs to define an old style hunt cap, a modern hunt cap that conforms to safety standards and a “helmet”. They seem to mean different things to different people.[/QUOTE]

You are right about that, growing up as a junior in the 1960s we wore “hunt caps” and they were a hard material covered in velvet or velveteen and our mothers would sew an elastic strap to the lining to help keep it on our heads in the event of a fall. It was the best that was available in those days. Of course we all hated those elastic straps and those of us who showed had a fancier velvet hunt cap without a chin strap, just for shows, where appearance mattered more to us than safety. :winkgrin:

When I came back to horses after a 20+ years absence, I saw only approved “helmets” - I don’t think anyone refers to those as hunt caps anymore, although the old hunt caps of my day are still around and available I think.

[SomedaySoon]

I always considered modern hunt cap-style headgear that conforms to safety standards a “helmet” or “hunt cap[-style] helmet”, and a “hunt cap” to be a non-safety standard meeting decorative headgear.

[BeeHoney]

[QUOTE=ISR;8394302]

Presumably if you are an adult you are capable of making your own safety decisions. That includes making decissions on what horse you hunt, which field you ride in, and which safety products you choose to use.[/QUOTE]

Unfortunately, accidents do affect other people. A bad accident on a landowner’s property might discourage that landowner–or other landowners–from allowing the hunt on their property. Many people are very nervous about accidents and liability these days. People can’t control how their loved ones will handle an accident, whether or not their loved ones will choose to file a lawsuit, etc. if they are maimed or killed. Accidents also result in negative press for the sport and can cause people close to the situation to reconsider their participation in and support of the sport. So, while I respect individuals’ rights, I think that safety issues are very much a concern for modern day hunts. I occasionally see old style hunt caps when I’m out hunting and I generally keep my opinions to myself, but I do hope that hunts move towards requiring protective headgear. I don’t care what people do when riding their own horse on their own property.

FWIW, I run a boarding stable where I require people to wear helmets. If I wouldn’t let someone ride a horse on my property without a helmet, I wouldn’t feel right riding on someone else’s property without one. It seems to me that we should as a matter of responsibility and respect towards our landowners take reasonable safety precautions and ASTM/SEI helmets are considered a pretty standard piece of safety equipment for horseback riding.

[Bogie]

I agree.

Landowner relations are key.

As a side note we had a senior member who rode in an old style hunt cap. He fell off at least once at every hunt. It was terrifying.

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8397353]
Unfortunately, accidents do affect other people. A bad accident on a landowner’s property might discourage that landowner–or other landowners–from allowing the hunt on their property. Many people are very nervous about accidents and liability these days. People can’t control how their loved ones will handle an accident, whether or not their loved ones will choose to file a lawsuit, etc. if they are maimed or killed. Accidents also result in negative press for the sport and can cause people close to the situation to reconsider their participation in and support of the sport. So, while I respect individuals’ rights, I think that safety issues are very much a concern for modern day hunts. I occasionally see old style hunt caps when I’m out hunting and I generally keep my opinions to myself, but I do hope that hunts move towards requiring protective headgear. I don’t care what people do when riding their own horse on their own property.

FWIW, I run a boarding stable where I require people to wear helmets. If I wouldn’t let someone ride a horse on my property without a helmet, I wouldn’t feel right riding on someone else’s property without one. It seems to me that we should as a matter of responsibility and respect towards our landowners take reasonable safety precautions and ASTM/SEI helmets are considered a pretty standard piece of safety equipment for horseback riding.[/QUOTE]

[ISR]

I won’t argue the importance of safety helmets (there is no debate for me personally). Only that I can understand any hunt not wanting to police their use. It sort of opens a flood gate of other questions: allowing green horses with less experienced riders (allowing green horses full stop!), the use of safety vests, are the helmets up to current safety code (PS–those codes have just been updated, is every member to replace their helmet?) etc.

When I lived in the SW of England, we had a rare snow storm. I was working at the hospital, and noticed that none of the sidewalks around or in front of the hospital had been cleared. I raised this with the operations and facility managers, and was told that it was against the law to remove it because if they did remove it, but not well enough and an injury occured they could be held liable. If they failed to remove the snow and ice it would be considered an act of God. A bizarre twist of logic on the way I was raised in the US.

But the short of it is, if someone wants to file a lawsuit, someone will file a lawsuit.