Do the hounds kill the fox?

[Auventera_Two]

That’s pretty much the question.

I’ve been reading the Hunting forum and enjoy seeing the beautiful photos of lovely horses and riders so professionally turned out. But searching on the internet for fox hunting seemed to turn up a lot of anti-fox hunting websites, and some downright graphic photos of foxes being torn to shreds by the hounds.

Can somebody tell me that fox hunting in 2006 isn’t quite the same as fox hunting of old?

Edited so title says Hounds and not dogs. I know “dogs” is incorrect. Sorry. (I have a hound myself and never refer to him as a dog. )

[Badger]

Here is a thread where this is discussed pretty extensively:

http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=34004

Hope it’s helpful.

[citydog]

I am new to hunting, but drag hunt, and personally will only ever drag hunt, I think. Most (not all) of the hunts up here are drags.

I really hope this thread doesn’t turn into a train wreck, because I’ve been meaning to ask a similar question of those who live hunt. Folks in live hunts have commented on the rarity of a kill, and poking around on the internet seems to indicate that the US–the non-coyote people at least–have far less focus on the kill than in the UK.

I’d love to hear how often live hunts a.) actually give chase to live quarry (i.e. how often do you actually have a critter to chase and how often are you drawing a blank) and b.) how often do those hunts end in a kill.

And pleasepleaseplease no trainwreck.

[citydog]

Ooops. Badger posted while I was writing. Off to read that thread.

[dawglover]

Yes, on occasion, the fox IS caught by the hounds. Death is fairly instantaneous.
I don’t think anyone enjoys a kill, at least no one that I hunt with does. We enjoy the chase and want our foxes to to stay alive.

A healthy native fox knows his country, can outsmart the hounds and has several options for going to ground. Here in the states we don’t dig out foxes…we give them best and they are out there for us to chase another day.

[Auventera_Two]

Great comments, thanks! I’m not an animal activitst, and sure don’t want a trainwreck. Was just curious if it was customary to catch the fox. Thanks for posting the other thread, I will read there.

[AC_Ty]

First, you may want to edit the title of your post to read “hounds” versus “dogs”…that’s just one of those things foxhunters hate to hear…not trying to be snarky…really…

Second…Even very good hunts may only get ONE fox a year…ONE FOX. AND…99.9% of the time, the fox is either old, sick, or injured. A healthy fox will rarely be caught unless it makes a mistake. But yes, if they catch up, the hounds do kill the fox, and like another poster said, it is instantaneous.

I have hunted very lightly for almost 15 years or so…(and I mean anywhere from 1 to 6/7 hunts per season)…and I have never seen them catch one. I have however, seen foxes leisurely loping through fields and trotting down fence lines, and even perching on a coop and having a seat for a moment. Big, beautiful, TOTALLY UNFAZED, healthy foxes. They could care less, really. :winkgrin: It’s very amusing to see Mr. Fox sitting there enjoying the scenery while he listens to the hounds frantically trying to find him…:lol:

[Auventera_Two]

@AC & Ty;2025242

First, you may want to edit the title of your post to read “hounds” versus “dogs”…that’s just one of those things foxhunters hate to hear…not trying to be snarky…really…

One step ahead of ya - did it already. And like I said, I have a Hound myself and always call him a Hound, and not a dog. Here’s his picture from Thanksgiving morning. That’s me and my mare and Ezekiel the hound, doing what he does best! laugh

http://auventera.myphotoalbum.com/view_photo.php?full=1&set_albumName=album03&id=M_Jump_4

Didn’t meant to offend anyone, honest.

[kellyb]

Yeah, like AC said if the fox does get caught there’s a good chance he’s sick or injured already…probably a quick death is better for him than a slow painful natural one.

[Auventera_Two]

Yep, I’d probably tend to agree with that! My hound is fast and smart but he is always outrun by everything he tries to chase. (rabbits, mice, fox) :lol:

[JBnC]

CerCertainly not trying to stir the pot, but I’d like some sincerity from Fox Hunters. I have been to a few as an observer, and the one I went to vehemently denied the so-called blooding and said that they only killed if the hounds got a hold of the fox.

I can’t help but wonder if they did that in front of visitors, but there was a different story inside the circle.

Just recently I was talking to an acquaintance who grew up hunting. Her father takes care of the hounds and horses for a club in the S.E. and she was talking about blooding like it happened all the time. I was shocked.

So yes, that left me wondering–wondering if this ritual does occur more in the US than clubs allow the public to believe so that they can avoid issues with animal rights organizations and perhaps the local human society.

Look, I am a leather wearing meat eater, so I’m not throwing any stones, but IF (and I stress if here,-- if --as in the theoretical sense) Clubs are blooding, I don’t think they should lie about it to make themselves look good.

[Tantivy1]

CityDog;

It is customary to chase Monsieur Charles, but we are on his turf, not ours, and accordingly, it is the rarest exception when he does not handily best us.

I have personally seen a fox safely sitting and watching hounds hot on his scent after he deliberately laid a torturous line and slipped away.

I think you could safely say, ahem, it is customary that we view him…and lose him!

[SteeleRdr]

JBnC- I don’t think the hunts are just saying that to “save face.” It is a VERY uncommon occurence in the US these days to have a person be blooded. And like has been said, usually a fox is only killed if it is old, injured, sick, or makes a mistake (ie, fox suicide as I like to call it). The is a reason for the saying “sly as a fox.”

[JBnC]

[QUOTE=SteeleRdr;2025472]
JBnC- I don’t think the hunts are just saying that to “save face.” It is a VERY uncommon occurence in the US these days to have a person be blooded. And like has been said, usually a fox is only killed if it is old, injured, sick, or makes a mistake (ie, fox suicide as I like to call it). The is a reason for the saying “sly as a fox.”[/QUOTE]

Thanks SteeleRdr.

[redponyrider]

the general public is sure quick to get out the traps and the poison and call in the sharp-shooters around here when coyotes or fox or any other animal starts making a nuisance of itself, or just gets sighted near their houses. Kind of hypocritical to get upset about fox hunters occasionally catching a fox.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

And furthermore, every single kid that deer hunts, or turkey or squirrel or dove or duck or whatever – usually boys, granted, is indeed blooded. By dad or uncle or cool older brother or friend, from their first kill. It is an HONOR to be blooded. It is like getting ashes on Ash Wednesday. One honors the life of the animal, honors nature, honors mother earth and all the bounty in it. I am proud of having been blooded and having become part of the tribe. Any person with a cowpox shot scar, wearing leather, tucking into a hot dog and a factory farmed egg ought to look at little closer at the grotesque life and times of industrial farming and the gruesome conditions those animals live and die in to serve us and be a bit less edgy about the rare kill in the hunt field.
I have hunted a LOT. I’m 40. Started at age 5. I hunt 3-5 days per week, August-April. That’s 1000s of hunts. I’ve been on exactly FOUR hunts where they killed. 4. Not often.
But hunts certainly do not make you be blooded. One of those 4 times was this season. A few people humbly toddled up to the master to be blooded - a few were kids, a few adults. They were rapt, absolutely magical to be part of that fraternity. A couple others who had never been blooded hung back and did not take part. One said, later, they were sorry not to have done it.

[Hunter_s_Rest]

P.S. Melvin Poe, one of the nation’s best known and most beloved professional huntsman of all time, and a lifelong foxhunter, deer hunter, birds, squirrels, you name it – calls them ‘dogs.’

[Tantivy1]

Redponyrider wrote:

“the general public is sure quick to get out the traps and the poison and call in the sharp-shooters around here when coyotes or fox starts making a nuisance of itself, or just gets sighted near their houses. Kind of hypocritical to get upset about fox hunters occasionally catching a fox.”

THANK-YOU!

[xeroxchick]

What fox? Down here there are mostly coyotes. If I ever chase a red fox again I think I’ll kiss him on the snout.

Thisk “chasing.” Fox chasing.

[promlightshine]

purpose

For those who only drag hunt you aren’t hunting. I’ll likely be crucified for this but here me out. I have had the privilage of riding with some nice folks on drag hunts up in the Northeast. As a person who does theater I can easily dress the part, play the game and immerse myself into a perceived reality/role.

It’s fast, furious and you ride to your best ability. Its a rush but it’s not hunting . On a recent hunt the “drag hounds” got into some cover. After 2 hours of watching them run and the whips practically on masters horse to keep them in check I was waiting with baited breath for them to flush something out. The whips put a stop to that yelling and cracking whips to get them back on “scent”.

In the northeast we have coyote working their way into the neighborhoods and in many areas there are stories of stock/domestic animals being killed. If we harrass them a bit and keep them leary they remain where they should be; in the shadows and feral.

I’ve never seen a kill nor do I wish to. It’s also possible a pack of hounds on a drag hunt could find real scent and get prey . So to say that you only drag hunt means that you’ve not hunted long enough. Your hounds will at some point go after live prey and the show will stop and the reality of what you do will be in your face.

Yes, I’ve ridden many hunts where there is little “action” . But I’ve also seen incredible action on the coyotes part. … one goes into deep cover, another comes out. One came out into the opening and ran down a drainage ditch to thwart the hounds. It’s just amazing and frankly quite scarey … what smart incredible creatures they are.